Is CN becoming IC?

That's exactly what I have heard as well..BC Rail people simply do not want to work for CN...I ahev spoken to people who CN wants to relocate(dispatchers, etc. ), and they are turning CN down!, they would rather be let go than work for CN!.....Can't blame them, why would anyone want to be uprooted, moved whereever, only to wind up gone 6 months later anyway. Like I said, Tellier and EHH have been trumpeted as geniouses...a 5 year old could figure out the simplistic methods they use to get costs down. Now Telier has his hooks into Bombardier, and lok how he's "fixing" things there...same thing cut slash fire

Looks like CN is still arrogantly run. Take a look see at this two sites. The first one is about the lack of cleanup after a derailment this summer on the Bala Sub north of Parry Sound, Ontario. It also seems they tried to keep it a secret from the local landowners. Bad move CN, bad move. This was the derailment I was at and the company big-shots sure did enjoy flying around in that helicopter. To read the storey go here, http://www.parrysoundnorthstar.com/story--1095879934/

This incident is of a more serious nature. Since I work on the Signal Department on CN Rail up here in Canada it hits home in a big way. I feel sorry for the mother and daughter killed at this defective crossing. I also feel bad for the signalmen involved. I hope the rank and file employee is not at fault for this fiasco. Instead the top management behind this will pay dearly come judgement day. I sure do hope this style of Signal Department managing stays out of Canada. To read the storey go here, http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl ... 60345/1002

Signal Mechanic. Signal Department. Canadian National railways.

From a U.S. (Chicago) perspective, it can seem by outward
appearance that it is the U.S. railroads (WC, IC, DMIR, etc)
that are being consumed by the big railroad from north of
the border. Most IC and WC trains are now powered by
CN locomotives, for example. And consider that after 150-ish
years of railroad history, CN has become the first railroad to
own its own trans-Chicago line.

Given Canada's history, I understand the frustration a Candian
citizen must have about CN privatization. I don't know for
certain that the railroad can be considered U.S.-owned now, though.
CN is pubically traded and a single entity cannot own more than
15% of it. Canadians may no longer hold a majority share, but
I'm not sure that U.S. citizens do either. It is entirely possible
that CN is substantially owned by European and Far East money.

As for maintenance, the IC mainline seems to be in tip-top
condition. WC looks to be in decent shape too. The ex-GTW
looks to me to be in a bit rougher shape.

- Ed Kyle

Rail Traffic Maps at:
http://www.geocities.com/edkyle99/index.html

edkyle99 wrote:From a U.S. (Chicago) perspective, it can seem by outward
appearance that it is the U.S. railroads (WC, IC, DMIR, etc)
that are being consumed by the big railroad from north of
the border. Most IC and WC trains are now powered by
CN locomotives, for example. And consider that after 150-ish
years of railroad history, CN has become the first railroad to
own its own trans-Chicago line.

Given Canada's history, I understand the frustration a Candian
citizen must have about CN privatization. I don't know for
certain that the railroad can be considered U.S.-owned now, though.
CN is pubically traded and a single entity cannot own more than
15% of it. Canadians may no longer hold a majority share, but
I'm not sure that U.S. citizens do either. It is entirely possible
that CN is substantially owned by European and Far East money.

As for maintenance, the IC mainline seems to be in tip-top
condition. WC looks to be in decent shape too. The ex-GTW
looks to me to be in a bit rougher shape.

- Ed Kyle

Rail Traffic Maps at:
http://www.geocities.com/edkyle99/index.html

Yes WC/IC Trains are powered by CNR Units. The old GTW Line is in Bad shape in 01 when I rode on the International it was bouncy.

AmtrakFan

The IC M/L may be in tip top condition in some areas, (Amtrak routes) in other areas, it's rapidly becoming two streaks of rust thru a mud hole! The area I speak of is the Saint Louis sub from E.St.Louis to Duquoin,IL. (MP6-MP70) They've hammered the hell out of this railroad with the UP 15-20,000 ton coal trains & done VERY little to maintain it. Track gangs have been out all Spring & Summer with very little to show for their efforts. There's a price to pay for being overly..........frugal! Please don't misconstrue this as an indictment of the MofW department. They do the absolute best job possible with their limited funds and manpower. The bottom line is the hierarchy is too damned cheap to invest the necessary $.

jg;

I totally agree with you, about the railroads in general, and CN in particular, being excessively FRUGAL (nice word, not too assertive). When I worked for CSX on the Canadian Division, it was the same thing, the only tracks I ran on that were in decent shape were those of Conrail, from Nia. Falls, NY to Buffalo, and I expect their mainline out of Buffalo was just as good. But CSX, talk about crap track. Since CN went on their budget cutting, maximising profits at the expense of maintenance, I can foresee, in the not-too-distant future, where their operting ratio will go in the toilet, when the structure falls apart so badly that they'll have no choice but to repair it, for huge dollars. There is no company, not necessarily railroads, that can sustain a bottom line mentality for any length of time before it comes around to bite them in the a--.

cariboo1946 wrote:jg;

I totally agree with you, about the railroads in general, and CN in particular, being excessively FRUGAL (nice word, not too assertive). When I worked for CSX on the Canadian Division, it was the same thing, the only tracks I ran on that were in decent shape were those of Conrail, from Nia. Falls, NY to Buffalo, and I expect their mainline out of Buffalo was just as good. But CSX, talk about crap track. Since CN went on their budget cutting, maximising profits at the expense of maintenance, I can foresee, in the not-too-distant future, where their operting ratio will go in the toilet, when the structure falls apart so badly that they'll have no choice but to repair it, for huge dollars. There is no company, not necessarily railroads, that can sustain a bottom line mentality for any length of time before it comes around to bite them in the a--.

What's both ironic and sad is the fact the IC is being paid $17-20,000 for each of these UP coal trains we handle to Paducah. With that amount of revenue being generated there's no reason not to have state of the art road bed. On second thought, we simply fail to see "the big picture", correct?

cariboo1946 wrote:jg;

I totally agree with you, about the railroads in general, and CN in particular, being excessively FRUGAL (nice word, not too assertive). When I worked for CSX on the Canadian Division, it was the same thing, the only tracks I ran on that were in decent shape were those of Conrail, from Nia. Falls, NY to Buffalo, and I expect their mainline out of Buffalo was just as good. But CSX, talk about crap track. Since CN went on their budget cutting, maximising profits at the expense of maintenance, I can foresee, in the not-too-distant future, where their operting ratio will go in the toilet, when the structure falls apart so badly that they'll have no choice but to repair it, for huge dollars. There is no company, not necessarily railroads, that can sustain a bottom line mentality for any length of time before it comes around to bite them in the a--.

Yes their Operation Ratio will go thru the roof when they have to repair it also I thought Mr. Greenwood the St. Louis line was owned by UP ex-SP.

if the cn needs to change its name (and it should not) it should be changed to the grand trunk. that is a great name in both canadian and us railroading. ic? never.

Investing more in physical plant really does not negatively affect operating ratio directly. Operating ratio is per cent of revenue dollars taken up by operating expenses (labor, fuel, equipment rent, etc.).

Plowing capital back into the railroad is an on-going battle for these companies. If return on capital is not up to standards, then investors look at spending too much on maintenance with a jaundiced eye. But yet, a failure to invest enough eventually turns into operating problems -- such as slow orders and derailments -- that reduce the velocity and efficiency of the railroad significantly (as well as revenue!).

Damned if you do -- damned if you don't!

Shareholders own the railroad, like it or not. These folks demand a "bottom line" operation, don't they? Those interested in long-term returns might be more in favor of keeping things up to standards. It's management's job to sell the board and shareholders on the value of maintaining the railroad sufficiently.

The thing with capital is that there will never be enough of it. This dictates hard choices about where to spend it to get the best return. This becomes easier if the railroad is well run in the first place.

AmtrakFan wrote:

cariboo1946 wrote:jg;

I totally agree with you, about the railroads in general, and CN in particular, being excessively FRUGAL (nice word, not too assertive). When I worked for CSX on the Canadian Division, it was the same thing, the only tracks I ran on that were in decent shape were those of Conrail, from Nia. Falls, NY to Buffalo, and I expect their mainline out of Buffalo was just as good. But CSX, talk about crap track. Since CN went on their budget cutting, maximising profits at the expense of maintenance, I can foresee, in the not-too-distant future, where their operting ratio will go in the toilet, when the structure falls apart so badly that they'll have no choice but to repair it, for huge dollars. There is no company, not necessarily railroads, that can sustain a bottom line mentality for any length of time before it comes around to bite them in the a--.

Yes their Operation Ratio will go thru the roof when they have to repair it also I thought Mr. Greenwood the St. Louis line was owned by UP ex-SP.

I believe you may be speaking of the old SP/CSL, the trackage running north of STL to Springfield? The IC STL sub runs south from ESTL to Duquoin where it wyes off to the IC Centralia sub.

jg greenwood wrote:

AmtrakFan wrote:

cariboo1946 wrote:jg;

I totally agree with you, about the railroads in general, and CN in particular, being excessively FRUGAL (nice word, not too assertive). When I worked for CSX on the Canadian Division, it was the same thing, the only tracks I ran on that were in decent shape were those of Conrail, from Nia. Falls, NY to Buffalo, and I expect their mainline out of Buffalo was just as good. But CSX, talk about crap track. Since CN went on their budget cutting, maximising profits at the expense of maintenance, I can foresee, in the not-too-distant future, where their operting ratio will go in the toilet, when the structure falls apart so badly that they'll have no choice but to repair it, for huge dollars. There is no company, not necessarily railroads, that can sustain a bottom line mentality for any length of time before it comes around to bite them in the a--.

Yes their Operation Ratio will go thru the roof when they have to repair it also I thought Mr. Greenwood the St. Louis line was owned by UP ex-SP.

I believe you may be speaking of the old SP/CSL, the trackage running north of STL to Springfield? The IC STL sub runs south from ESTL to Duquoin where it wyes off to the IC Centralia sub.

Yes I am Mr. Greenwood for got the IC had a line into STL. Sorry!!!!!!!

AmtrakFan

AmtrakFan wrote:

jg greenwood wrote:

AmtrakFan wrote:

cariboo1946 wrote:jg;

I totally agree with you, about the railroads in general, and CN in particular, being excessively FRUGAL (nice word, not too assertive). When I worked for CSX on the Canadian Division, it was the same thing, the only tracks I ran on that were in decent shape were those of Conrail, from Nia. Falls, NY to Buffalo, and I expect their mainline out of Buffalo was just as good. But CSX, talk about crap track. Since CN went on their budget cutting, maximising profits at the expense of maintenance, I can foresee, in the not-too-distant future, where their operting ratio will go in the toilet, when the structure falls apart so badly that they'll have no choice but to repair it, for huge dollars. There is no company, not necessarily railroads, that can sustain a bottom line mentality for any length of time before it comes around to bite them in the a--.

Yes their Operation Ratio will go thru the roof when they have to repair it also I thought Mr. Greenwood the St. Louis line was owned by UP ex-SP.

I believe you may be speaking of the old SP/CSL, the trackage running north of STL to Springfield? The IC STL sub runs south from ESTL to Duquoin where it wyes off to the IC Centralia sub.

Yes I am Mr. Greenwood for got the IC had a line into STL. Sorry!!!!!!!

No big deal. Too many fallen flags/"used to be's" to keep track of these days.

AmtrakFan

:wink: :wink:

around my shop, CN is known as chicago national... myself and almost every other mechanic/electrican like saying canadian national, and many supervisors do too, but if they answer their phones with anything other than CN or CN rail, they can get their butts in trouble real quick... and maintenence is going down the craps.. everything is pushed too quick... standard [92day] inspections are now done on our service track, with the supervisors signing off many inspections items... on the cn loco's it isn't so bad as we maintened them very well before the cn/ic/wc deal. now if we get a WC or IC unit to do the inspection on, there will be many things that could make the loco non FRA but they supervisors sign them off...

wheels are bad too... as long as you can see light between the wheel gauge and the flange for high flange, they will OK it for service [being like 0.010" from condem limit]

nickleinonen wrote:around my shop, CN is known as chicago national... myself and almost every other mechanic/electrican like saying canadian national, and many supervisors do too, but if they answer their phones with anything other than CN or CN rail, they can get their butts in trouble real quick... and maintenence is going down the craps.. everything is pushed too quick... standard [92day] inspections are now done on our service track, with the supervisors signing off many inspections items... on the cn loco's it isn't so bad as we maintened them very well before the cn/ic/wc deal. now if we get a WC or IC unit to do the inspection on, there will be many things that could make the loco non FRA but they supervisors sign them off...

wheels are bad too... as long as you can see light between the wheel gauge and the flange for high flange, they will OK it for service [being like 0.010" from condem limit]

The older IC units we have around E.St.Louis are nothing but worn out junk. Had the IC 6013/6017 yesterday; 26-cars out of Duquoin and the pieces of dung took an eternity to reach 40-mph, on relatively level track. You are 100% correct, total lack of maintenance!