Is CN becoming IC?

In another topic (CN Business Train E9's)

Dieter wrote:Then how long will CN last? It sure looks like it's headed to IC!

For an outfit destined for a merger, I've seen a LOT of IC rolling stock, in what looks like fresh paint!

Dieter.

While I too have recently seen many freight cars in IC grey with IC lettering that look sort of newly painted, I've also see plenty of cars in CN brown with fresh looking paint bearing various CN marks including several with the long gone CV (Central Vermont) on the sides. To me, this is just routine upkeep.

What I have noticed is that many of these don't have the railroad name, but simply the CN "noodle" plus www.cn.ca underneath. Is this an obvious sign of something? Maybe, or, maybe not.

While CN may change its name (remember the North American Railroad name proposed for the squashed BNSF/CN merger), it won't be Illinois Central! They're too ambitious for that.

I doubt the name will change, it will just become "CN" , which in their opinion, no longer stands for anything, it' sjust a logo, just like the old CP multimark. It would be much like "CSX" which arguably stands for something, but for the most part, noone, except on legal papers, acknowledges that fact. Until privatization, pretty much all equipment, except locomtives still proudly stated "CANADIAN NATIONAL" above the reporting marks, along with the noodle at the opposite end. Via would be another good example....it's a logo, with some meaning, but doesn't directly stand for anything.

CP has done the exact opposite, and embraced their past, and the fact that they are a Canadian based company. Changing back to Canadian Pacific, from CP Rail, has done wonders for their public image. Hopefully, they will stay that way, but ultimatley that may be too much to hope for. Personally, if the CPR winds up foreign based, we might as well pack it in entirely.

missthealcos wrote:I doubt the name will change, it will just become "CN" , which in their opinion, no longer stands for anything, it' sjust a logo,...

I agree that CN is abandoning its heritage and that's very sad.

... just like the old CP multimark.

CP also abandoned the multimark, too quickly in my opinion. The multimark system may have been too complicated, with different colours to indicate the different modes: rail, air, ships, transport (truck), etc., but I thought it was a superior symbol to CN's noodle. But that's just my opinion.

I agree, personally, I thought it was a good logo, brought all the divisions together. It didn't matter what it was on, you knew whos it was instantly, from miles away. The railway was the first to drop it, and even then only on equipment, citing cost of application...it was still used as the logo in other forms. The airline followed. Many thought it too meaningless. Of course, with the break up of Canadian Pacific Limited, it no longer would have had any meaning had it lasted that long....

It's sad how CN is getting rite of the Heritage. Also it's time that CN needs to stop this but CP is doing the Opposite which is good.

AmtrakFan

You bring up a lot of interesting things....

CSX Is supposed to stand for Chessie System Transportation. So, why it isn't CST, who knows. The best explanation I've heard of CSX is that it stands for Crash Spill Xplode

Freshly painted IC equipment seen from Montreal eastward made me nervous, here's why. For the past decade, I've noticed a decay in what was usually a freshly looking, well maintained CN freight car fleet. Then I noticed something I had never seen before. CN freight gear with rust and peeling paint. As their appearance became more and more frequent, freshly painted cars began to show up with NO NOODLE, merely reporting marks on the left side, which could have been anything. Was I seeing gear from a new spin-off named Columbia, Nashville & Arlington? Let's be honest, you can't tell where anything is from anymore with these cryptic letters on the sides!

Now, a resurgence of the noodle, and HEY! There's even a Website address to let you know these guys mean business! Not so fast....

Generally, in a merger (for example, SPSF, which never came to be), two roads will adopt at least the SAME COLOR. This makes a transition a bit smoother for the shops who then merely need to paint a few small sectors with new reporting marks and logo, saving $$$$.

Where's the savings when you use traditional boxcar red, and charcoal gray? Initially on the CN Website, they said they were keeping the Illinois Central entity alive, through the 100th anniversary of famed (ill-famed) locomotive engineer, Casey Jones.

Well, that centennary has come and gone, and the IC is still kicking, it would seem, at least on the rails. De-Canadianization? Well, take a look at the CN Website at the bottom of the page "ABOUT CN". What does it say? "Canadian National Railway Company". Well, according to that, CN isn't just letters, it means something.

A new name? Well, IC was never a railroad to get excited about. Perhaps they will call it the Gulf and Northern. Figure out a Noodle logo with the letters GN, and the Great Northern fans will be most pleased!

Dieter.

I thought CSX stood for Chessie Seaboard and the X mean combined or something. I could be wrong.

I just saw a Fresh Painted CN car Yesterday that had Candien National Lettering from what I could see. Also saw an IC SD40-2.

AmtrakFan

I've read that CSX stands for Chessie, Seaboard, and the X stands for future growth.

Chessie System Transportation is something I've never heard of in any explanation for what it stands for.

Leo;

You're right about the intended name given to CSX, indicating Chessie, Seaboard and ?? in the future. But, I worked for C&O for 20 years, we said it stood for Cheap & Obsolete, and CSX stood for Chicken Shit Express. In the creation of Chessie System, the original Chesapeake & Ohio Railway bought up the controlling interest in Baltimore & Ohio, as it was having cash flow problems, and needed an influx of money. They raised a bunch of bridges, repaired the track, improved the car and locomotive fleet, and were taken over by B&O management. Go figure, these guys ran B&O into the ground, yet they wound up running the whole shebang.

The people who managed B&O at the time C&O bought control weren't responsible for B&O's condition; not all of it anyway. If you look at B&O's history it was never really prosperous enough to generate or attract the capital it needed. That's why it rebuilt heavyweight cars into streamliners,. as it couldn't afford enough new cars. B&O had a rough and expensive crossing of the Alleghenies compared to its competitors, which meant it earned less for comparable shipments. Insufficient net income and uncertain prospects for return on capital invested in improvements meant their was little prospect of improving the property to make it more competitive. The middle of the system was well developed but but on the small side while the extremities were underdeveloped extensions to gateways (New York, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Louisville which had to compete with all the other trunk lines for the through business but lacked much captive on line traffic. This was largely the fault of the 19th century management. The only way B&O could get an edge was to hustle, which is probably why its' people were promoted to run the C&O/B&O and later Chessie system. C&O had guaranteed coal revenue so perhaps their people didn't have to try so hard to compete.

Montreal Ltd.

Agreed on some points, how B&O was in trouble, dating back to the 1800's, but as to C&O's major revenue, at the time of acquistion of B&O, being coal, not true. I believe it was in the 40's that C&O bought the Pere Marquette, mostly in Michigan and Canada, and their mainstay was the auto business, both parts in and cars out. It wasn't til the oil imbargo got going full tilt that coal became more popular again.

But, this is the CNR forum, and the question was: Is CN becoming the IC?

I don't know about that, as CNR is the major owner of all the other roads, unless they decide to rename the whole enchalata, like CSX did, I expect CNR will still be THE name. But, it's already becoming like the IC, and all the other American roads, because of it's present management, the top of the pile is from the IC, and their thinking will be prevalent, for some time, at least until EHH retires.

Does anybody know if the operating ratios for IC, GT, CV, DWP, etc. are posted separately, or are they all lumped into the CNR's overall operating ratio? Having worked on an american road, and run into the States, I can't see how any of those roads could ever get their operating ratios below 80&, let alone below 70%.

When present CN's president, Hunter Harrison, was with Illinois Central as their CEO, the IC had the best operating ratio in the rail industry.

After being hired as CN's CEO in 1998, by Paul Tellier, he instituted IC's practice of " scheduled railroading ". Today CN's operating ratio is just below 70 %, the tops in the business........ no coincidence.

So CN has gone from the worst ratio ( in 1992 their ratio was 98% ) to the best among the major North American RRs.

Yes, but look how it was done.....they spend NOTHING on maintenance, and every time they think they are going to not perform as well as last quarter financially, another massive round of layoffs. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out..spend nothing: keep more, but at what cost? I would bet CN employees are proably the most demoralized in the industry

I would bet CN employees are proably the most demoralized in the industry

You think so!! I was just over to their yard, in Kamloops, and you're right on the money, in all areas. Layoffs are rampant, maintenance is down graded extensively and MORAL is in the toilet. The former BC Rail folks are presenting a problem for EHH, he wants to "lay off" up to 30 hoggers, 60 trainmen, but they don't want to be subject to recall, they want to retire and/or get bought out. Most of us know guys on CN, and they're not happy campers at all.

I've seen the American way of things, in the past (I worked for CSX for 20 years), and their bottom line mentality eventually comes around to bite them where the sun don't shine. It won't be long before there are so many slow orders that on-time delivery is non-existant, and crews are tieing up left and right. No wonder they want the IC agreement in Canada, 12 hours instead of 10, less reliefs. It's been said that no company, with a bottom line mentality, remains viable for long, most wind up going belly up. Looks good short term, keeps the shareholders all warm and gushy, but it can't and doesn't last.