High Paying LIRR Jobs

Blue you know what I meant. The whole qualifying is not as hard as some people say it is. The training department and rules office make it sound worse than it is so studying is actually done. It should not be made any easier (or less harder) than it is now. And we all know it beats working for a living even with the qualifying thing.

Point,

Glad to hear you found qualifying on the PC such an simple task. Ever think of taking up brain surgery as a night job? Hay, I learned to neuter cats from the Internet... Maybe study for the medical boards between trains? Really, most folks find it very tough. So tough that 38% who took the test in 2001 failed the first time. About 20% never passed and left the Department or Railroad.

For those who are serious, get a set of qualification maps on e-bay or somewhere and try to memorize one branch. Practice untill you can draw it from memory. For some, this type of visual memory is quite difficult. Others, like Point, will breeze through it.

As Point and others have said, the Rules can be taught and learned and pose less of a challenge to many. The signals and definations are rough too. Memorize all of them word for word. One mistake and you've failed.

We do have several qualified employees on the LIRR who are CPA's, Lawyers and Professional Engineers. (No M.D.'s yet) Those who I know personally say that qualifying on the LIRR PC was more difficult than their state tests. But I suppose that depends on how each individual mind works.

Hay, where'd Liquid's post go?

Clemuel

Clem,

Any posts that may have had a relation or responce to that "La-Quanda" character were deleted.

if Licquids others have been deleted then i dont know why(?)

Clem,
A majority of that 38% failed on the first time because they studied very little or not at all. A small percentage will blow a signal or freeze up in the written or the verbal. I have spoke to people that have failed and most of them went into it not having the whole railroad drawn. That is a very hard way to pass hoping that the" PC gods" will only give you questions that you know how to answer. The percentage of employees that can't pass after seven times should have never been hired by the LIRR to begin with. I still feel the amount of time it takes to get ready for the tests (even if it a year for some) is not a big deal. And brain surgeons need to remember all they learn for ever. How many trainmen still can rattle off the electric locks on the main or the passing sidings and their car capacities on the montauk branch?

What things are needed to be memorised for the tests but are kinda forgotton about afterwards. stuff that you just need to know for the test?

Point's right. Most who fail simply never bothered to invest the time to learn. And, yes, anything that can be found on a map carried in a bag can probably be forgotten. A good employee retains what he needs to know and knows where to find what he's forgotten.

Lots of those who fail never should have been hired. They just don't try or simply lack the necessary brain cells.

Passing the PC after five months of study usually means you devoted serious time to study and was motivated. You like your job and wanted to learn... Hay, Point -- that's you!

Clem

I've been following the discussion since it started, and it got me wondering if the requirements for qualifying as a conductor on the LIRR part of a standardized system. Do other railroads like MNCRR have similiar qualifying procedures?

Metro-North permits employees to qualify by branch or line... ask one of their guys who would know better than I.

Amtrak is very easy on its employees, permitting them to qualify by area and not requiring full memory of the PC.

Railroads must qualify their employees, but how they do that is up to the particular railroad. The LI and its parent PRR historically had a reputation as being the toughest, and the former Rules Examiners were carefully selected to keep it that way. The LI also had and still has a very diverse set of rules in effect. Manual Block, Automatic Block, ASC, 251, 261, etc.

Same goes for train handling. Engineer Richie Harrison used to relate the story that when he went into WWII no one would believe he was qualified on steam, diesel, MU and electric locomotives. Seems few roads operated all those things with one roster or "seniority district" of enginemen.

Clemuel

Thanks for the info Clemuel. That bit about Amtrak is especially interesting; I can't help but wonder if their safety record would be better if their employees had better knowledge of the road's PCs.

Probably would help...

The Long Island guys have to qualify in Zone A (Amtrak Penna Station, F, C, JO Lines 1,2,3,4, N & S Tubes A Tower - Bergen) with the Amtrak Rules Examiner.

For many years the test consisted of forking over $3 for a map. The Amtrak Rules Examiner lived on Long Island and rode the LIRR. His brother was a LIRR Engineer. The only guy who failed in decades was a fellow who wouldn't buy the map.

Then they made it harder. They gave you the map and asked you questions about it, like "point to the 'gooseneck' signal off 19 Track".

"Where is 18 Track". Duh.

These days I believe there is some attempt at a written test, but I hear that you need to have a really nasty attitude to fail. Perhaps one of the younger readers could confirm this?

I'm a $3 man.

Clemuel

Amtrak's requirements for engineers are very strict, I know a couple of
CSX engineers in Selkirk who gave up their jobs with CSX and went to
Amtrak as new employees. They spent weeks in Wilmington qualifying on
the NORAC rulebook which they had already worked under at the time.
They also spent much time on equipment. After that was finished, they
had to qualify on the physical characteristics of all of the lines that run out
of Albany, namely: New York, Syracuse, Boston, Montreal and Rutland.
They had to qualify on four different rulebooks: NORAC, CSX, Metro-
North, Vermont Railway and Canadian National. They also had to hold
three different licenses: Amtrak, Metro-North and Canada. Three major
passenger terminals are involved here too: Penn Station in New York,
South Station in Boston and Central Station in Montreal.
As far as Metro-North is concerned, I am not positive today but when I
worked there, they wanted to get everybody qualified everywhere but they did not persue that and it ended up that the people working on the
New Haven for example out of New Haven, Stamford and Danbury only
had to qualify on their own territory. The same applied for people on the
Harlem and the Hudson. The people in New York for the most part had to
be qualified on all three divisions unless they held enough seniority to bid
a job that only worked one of them. They also used to require a special
qualification to work yard and emergency assignments in Grand Central
but of course, I do not know if that is still required there either.
Metro-North has requirements as do most railroads and I suppose the
LIRR has too that an engineer has to work a line one time a year in order
to maintain his/her qualification on that particular line. On Metro-North,
there are people with a decent amount of seniority who work out of
Brewster, Wassaic, Harmon, Poughkeepsie, New Haven etc who only work
one line and have only worked one line for a long time. These people are
no longer qualified to work the other lines for the most part. I suspect
that you have the same situation on the LIRR, correct me if I am wrong.
Incidentally, some of the freight railroads have long and extended crew
runs today and in addition, some times engineers can be qualified in two
or three different directions out of a major terminal so this can also involve a lot of territory.
I am not trying to compare the LIRR characteristics with CSX, Amtrak,
Metro-North or any others. I have done Metro-North passenger service as
well as Conrail (now CSX) freight service and while they are quite different, both freight and passenger have their good points and their bad
points.
Physical characteristics should not be taken lightly in either freight, Amtrak
or commuter passenger service. In any class of service, it is important to
know them and know them well.
Noel Weaver

Hi Clem:

Zone A qualification consists of the following............First, a 2 hour lecture with the Zone A rules examiner followed by an hour or so worth of a Penn Station walk with the LIRR Training Dept. Exactly one week later, the students return to Zone A examiner for a 45 minute verbal exam. Certain questions include............Rules in effect in the tunnels and in the station............speeds in the tunnels and in the station for psgr and frt. Yard track designations on the north west end of Penn, ladder tracks, goosenecks, middle tracks, interlockings and their respective number series, etc.

Hope this helps.

SK, you described what it takes to qualify in Zone A for present day Conductors and Engineers from the LIRR which is the bare minimum for us to do anything in Penn. In addition, when I qualified in Zone A as an Engineer, it was a walk through Penn prior to the examination, then a written test followed by a verbal test. Apparently that has changed. But qualifying in Zone A for the Operators in PSCC is a similar to Dispatchers qualifying on the LIRR. It is a real tough test for them.

Dispatcher exams on the LIRR are not all that different from Conductors exams. The Dispatcher Rules exam is a bit tougher in the respect that the exam focuses greatly on Train Orders. The PC exam for Dispatchers is virtually the same as the Conductor's PC exam. In both cases, however, the passing grade for Conductors is 75% while the passing grade for Train Dispatchers is 90%.

I do not no why noone answers me. I no I can ace any test to be a railroad manager on the LIRR because I have ridden every line and no all the stations and rules. But someone said most managers only make $60 thosand dollars/yea, but that some make $150000. I need to no which ones make $150000 so I can put those jobs on my job application and when they offer me a job it wount be one of the $60000 ones. Most of the managers I see in New York and Jamaica are very young and just stand around or run back and forth with radios and I no I can do so much more than they do because I am a railroad expert and even no all the radio talk from listening to my scanner at the fire house. Please just answer my question now.