Hand the R3 over to the West Chester RR

**sigh** You know it's really difficult for a Mass transit company that has mixed rail and bus lines to succeed when the management is from the Philadelphia Bus Company and their background and their thoughts for the future is going to be buses, buses, buses.
SO, when the price of gas gets astronomically european high, and people find it difficult to fill up the 30 some gallon tanks on their SUV's and they want to start saving money by taking the trains into the city and whatnot, no trains will exist becuase Septa would have let them all be replaced by Buses.

I live in Glen Mills (SUV HeLL), and I feel cut off from the world. True, I can drive the 45 minutes into the city after heading SOUTHEAST on the conchester for a good 20 minutes and pick up 95 below Chester OR I can fight the hell of traffic getting TO the blue route on Baltimore Pike, and then risk getting into an accident right where it bottlenecks there at 95 (been there, done that, dont want it to happen again). And true, I could drive the 25 minutes to Media station, ATTEMPT to find a parking spot in the little lot they have there, but why should I have to?
I have a train station less than 2 minutes from my house (Glen Mills train station) which is beautifully restored and maintained by the station master/West Chester RR. Actually in 3 minutes of my house, I have 5 possible stations (counting if the old Octorara line was still open) But I can't take it into the city because septa stopped running the lines.
West Chester RR came in and took over the line from West Chester down to Glen Mills (and maybe to Lenni down the road? hint hint) and from what I can gather from my sources they are doing quite well in repairing and maintaining the line on their end, finding donations to keep the line running, and operating it on as a tourist railroad.

MY solution is for the West Chester RR to take over the entire R3 line. That way you will have a group of people who specialize in trains and want to see things succeed in a rail sort of way, managing the line, and not looking to find ways to replace the line with other modes of transportation. West Chester area NEEDS it. The roads are WAY too congested between here and Philadelphia. The lines are there for rail but just sitting there unused (Glen Mills to Elwyn) and going to waste and being left to mother nature.

Does anybody agree with my thoughts?


Stuck in the burbs,
J Steward

I'm with you on that. Septa needs to bring back service to W. Chester.

If the WCRR could fix acquire ownership / rights between Glen Mills and Elwyn and repair it to the standards of its current Glen Mills to West Chester portion, other than operating on SEPTA's portion in Elwyn station, could they feasibly run a commuter service between West Chester and Elwyn?

It may be 20 or 25 mph or whatever, but that still may be faster than driving on route 3. It could just make a few stops, ie Lenni, Wawa, Glen Mills, Westtown, and West Chester.

Even if they only have one round trip in the peak periods (one set of equipement), I wonder if they could make ends meet. Remember, they do not have all of the modern and expensive bells and whistles that SEPTA has (cab signals, block signal system, interlockings, et al).

Correct me if I am wrong, but arent't the people of West Chester very similar to those of Bryn Mawr and Paoli, being very culturial? I'll bet some of them would love to be seen in old vintage equipment traveling to and from work every day.

What commuter is going to ride a 25mph train from WC to Elwyn? Their coaches aren't heated or air conditioned either.

I agree they would only need to run a few peak hour trains and that would be fine, but would people actually use it? Not to mention, unsubsidized, how much would a fare be? $5? 10$ Couple that with the SEPTA fare and you really might as well drive.

Too bad they didnt grab a E-60 when Amtrak was giving them away. They would probablly work ok for a low-speed application like that. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find some half decent coaches either, but the big expenses are probablly in the infrastructure, such as track, signalling and overhead power. Plus if they start hauling commuters, what other FRA rules will they be subject to that will make it unfeasible to run? That is what the FRA is for isn't it, Mr. Mineta?

You do bring up a point about the people in West Chester being similar to the people on the main line. I can see it going either way: You will either a) have the people who like the nostalgia or b) do nothing but complain (insert thesaurus comment here) and moan because they aren't in air conditioning/climate controlled cars. Who knows? West Chester RR can be pretty resourceful in coming up with money. Case in point: they went to politians to ask for money when both Penndot and city of West Chester denied the WCRR funding for repairing the Neild(sp?) St crossing and they got the funding.

steward75 wrote:...if the old Octorara line was still open...

Sorry to go on a tangent, but when did this line last see a train? I usually take a glance at it when I trundle over the line via the I-95 overpass near Chester.

I thought Herr's in Nottingham gets oil and potatoes once a week down that way.
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=64463

I can't help but think that having a regional rail agency might might be apropos. If set up correctly it could still have room for participation by small private lines offering passenger service under its umbrella. The metropolitan planning organization (MPO) could coordinate scheduling, routing, and fares/subsidies to make passenger service somewhat seemless throughout a metro region. It should be possible to provide for a mix of private and agency owned vehicles so small lines could participate which can't afford the necessary investment.

If the regional agencies were themselves coordinated at the state level, it would make intercity rail service more viable.

This all fits in with the proposal under "Would California-style solution work for SEPTA?" If you agree or have anything to add there, it could be read by some influential people. I forwarded a link for that topic to Senator Orie and her staff so they can monitor the responses (I also encouraged them to check out the other posts, but with time a premium they might not look around much).

There used to be state regional rail legislation on the books, but I couldn't find anything online at this time. Coupling some of the thinking in this forum with the state's current efforts to solve the transit funding crisis would give the best chance of implementation. We need to get to them when the subject has their attention as it does now. -- You have to strike while the iron is hot.

Pacobell73 wrote:

steward75 wrote:...if the old Octorara line was still open...

Sorry to go on a tangent, but when did this line last see a train? I usually take a glance at it when I trundle over the line via the I-95 overpass near Chester.

The Octoraraline is still open but owned by SEPTA any more. They sold it a few months ago when they were selling off all kinds of things. I do think it was EPRY who now owns the line. They still run on it like 2 or 3 times a week to the few customers that are left on the line. I think they even had like 2 derailments on the line since SEPTA never did any thing to line but let it fall apart. That all I know for now on it.

rob216 wrote:

Pacobell73 wrote:

steward75 wrote:...if the old Octorara line was still open...

Sorry to go on a tangent, but when did this line last see a train? I usually take a glance at it when I trundle over the line via the I-95 overpass near Chester.

The Octoraraline is still open but owned by SEPTA any more. They sold it a few months ago when they were selling off all kinds of things. I do think it was EPRY who now owns the line. They still run on it like 2 or 3 times a week to the few customers that are left on the line. I think they even had like 2 derailments on the line since SEPTA never did any thing to line but let it fall apart. That all I know for now on it.

In SEPTA's defense, the maintenance of the line was always the responsibility of the railroad with the operating contract. It was forward thinking on SEPTA's part to purchase the Octoraro branch to preserve it, but we all know how SEPTA expansion projects have since fared. The line has always been a slim-margin operation, making maintaining it in top-notch condition tough.

Also, consider that at the time of the Conrail creation, had SEPTA not purchased the line, it might never have seen any future after 1976.

I'm sorry...I meant the Octoraro line between Wawa and Chadds Ford. I know Hurricane Agnes killed it in 1972. What was service like before the hurricane hit? (I know the Chester Creek Line between Lenni and Lamokin Street on the NEC suffered the same fate).

Sorry Another tangent:

The Chester Creek branch is in POOOOR shape. I'm just waiting for the day that tressle collapses over the river there across from Novatni Construction on Mount Road, and again over Pennel Road both by Kings Mill.

steward75 wrote:Sorry Another tangent: The Chester Creek branch is in POOOOR shape. I'm just waiting for the day that tressle collapses over the river there across from Novatni Construction on Mount Road, and again over Pennel Road both by Kings Mill.

Sad. 33 years of decay, depression, and overcrowded highways. It is pretty eerie, seeing the ravages of the washouts from Hurricane Agnes. Rails dangling midair, rotted ties ready to fall at any given moment.

Sad. 33 years of decay, depression, and overcrowded highways. It is pretty eerie, seeing the ravages of the washouts from Hurricane Agnes. Rails dangling midair, rotted ties ready to fall at any given moment.

How much use did it get before the storm? Was it comparable to the Octoraro Branch?

PARailWiz wrote:How much use did it get before the storm? Was it comparable to the Octoraro Branch?

I do not believe much. Maybe thrice weekly. PRR did not have much of a use for it. Same with the Octoraro between Chadds Ford and Lenni. I think that is why they decided to skip rehabbing both lines afer the hurricane. No major needs for the line. I have to remind myself that the West Chester branch also suffered some pretty bad washouts as well, but the PRR fixed it up.