Green Line Type 10 thread

[Arlington]

The Type 10 is officially "a thing", with the posting of Engineering and Program Management Services in support of the Green Line Type 10

[the Manager] will assist the Authority with delivering the GLT10LRV procurement from contractor competitive procurement phase to full implementation on the entire Green Line. The firm shall be led by a senior level project manager with expertise in rail vehicle engineering and project management.

The GLT10LRV will be electrically propelled, double ended, articulated, low floor light rail vehicle designed to operate successfully on the Green Line for a minimum service life of 25 years. The GLT10LRVP will replace the existing Green Line Type 7 and 8 fleets.

[BandA]

I'd like to see the Type 9's delivered before the the Type 10 specifications are frozen! We know the Type 8's are Fail.

What are the best examples of low floor LRVs in service?

[andrewjw]

I'd like to see the Type 9's delivered before the the Type 10 specifications are frozen! We know the Type 8's are Fail.

What are the best examples of low floor LRVs in service?

Siemens S70, Alstom Citadis?

[diburning]

CAF Urbos 3 (which is what the Type 9s are based on). And to some extent, the Bombardier Flexity perhaps?

[Arlington]

The Type 10 is now being pitched as part of a 3.5b package that would nearly double GL capacity in 4 stages through 2030.

The package envisions:
- doubling the length of a standard "car" (1 or no motorman, 7 segments)
- eliminating curves of <50' radius (Park St, line-end turns, Brattle loop?)
- upgrading bridges (eg Lechmere Viaduct) to carry heavier, simultaneous trains going faster
- and more

FMCB May 7th Meeting:

Overview
Capacity
Construction

[rethcir]

Well, I sure hope they don’t have to shut the whole GLX down to rebuild it to support the new cars or anything like that.

[Disney Guy]

Would longer Type 10 (or Type 11) cars really double the capacity of the Green Line compared with Type 7 and TYpe 8 cars?

One seven segment Type 10 is proposed to be about 110 feet long, about 1-1/2 the length of one of today's cars.

Two Type 7/8 cars at 140 feet carry several more people than one proposed Type 10. Three Type 7/8s occupy the same space and would be expected to carry the same passengers as two Type 10s. To the extent that three Type 7/8s might be (are?) considered undesirable in the street going to Heath St., two Type 10's would be similarly undesirable.

Operationally we will be able to try playing the "double the capacity" game when the Type 9's arrive, providing quantity of cars as opposed to "quality." Or maybe sooner. The throughput bottleneck at subway stops will not go away with new cars; a new protocol is needed. Single Type 10's with a few deuces post 2020 will slog through the stations just as slowly as today's all-deuce Type 7/8 trains using today's rules and protocol with one train at a time in a station. Type 10s will slog through the streets just as slowly as Type 7/8s given today's traffic light technology.

Would the T consider a trial period (perhaps a 3 month rating period) using a large number of 3 car Type 7/8 trains to demonstrate the increase of capacity that Type 10s with some deuces should achieve?

[jwhite07]

If the T had enough cars available, they should be running 3 car trains NOW to alleviate horrendous overcrowding, not just as a trial. But they don't, and won't until all of the Type 7s are back from rehab and possibly enough Type 9s are accepted and operating. in short, not this year.

[BandA]

They need cars that allow movement from one end to the other, so that when they are in a station without fare gates the single operator can just open the front door. That really means coupling an arbitrary number of segments rather than separate cars.

[orange1234]

Would longer Type 10 (or Type 11) cars really double the capacity of the Green Line compared with Type 7 and TYpe 8 cars?

One seven segment Type 10 is proposed to be about 110 feet long, about 1-1/2 the length of one of today's cars.

Two Type 7/8 cars at 140 feet carry several more people than one proposed Type 10. Three Type 7/8s occupy the same space and would be expected to carry the same passengers as two Type 10s. To the extent that three Type 7/8s might be (are?) considered undesirable in the street going to Heath St., two Type 10's would be similarly undesirable.

Yes. Two Type 7/8 cars have four cabs. A single "Concept D" vehicle has two cabs. There would also be a single, continuous floor with no stairs along the length of a "Concept D" vehicle.

Would the T consider a trial period (perhaps a 3 month rating period) using a large number of 3 car Type 7/8 trains to demonstrate the increase of capacity that Type 10s with some deuces should achieve?

There would be enough cars for this by next year, but the power delivery infrastructure would need significant upgrades to accommodate more than a few 3-car trains during rush hour.

[houseman86]

I'm assuming the T is going to do the lechmere viaduct project at the same time that the new lechmere station is being built.

It would actually make a lot of sense. So that services on the new line don't have to be effected

[ceo]

They need cars that allow movement from one end to the other, so that when they are in a station without fare gates the single operator can just open the front door. That really means coupling an arbitrary number of segments rather than separate cars.

The T is moving to all-doors boarding on the Green Line and buses with the AFC 2.0 program, so this won't be an issue.

[Type7trolley]

One issue with these cars I could foresee is the speeds on the Highland branch. I don't know of any system running these multi-articulation all low floor streetcars at high speeds ie. above 35mph. They seem to be suited for slow, traditional street running operation rather than the near interurban level service the D line sees. I would imagine without trucks the ride would be quite rough at those speeds. They mention keeping the Type 9s in service, so maybe they will try to concentrate them on that line, though I'm not sure the total number of Type 9s is enough to completely cover it.

[The EGE]

Siemens S70, Bombardier Flexity, and Alstom Citadis (the three dominant multi-articulated brands) all have both 35mph 'streetcar' and 55-65mph 'light rail' versions. The MBTA would certainly obtain the 55mph version for use on the Riverside Line (currently 40mph, but fully capable of 50mph once the Type 8s are gone) and GLX (designed for 50mph ops). You would actually see travel times drop on those sections of the system.

[CRail]

Or return to what they were since the Highland Branch was 50mph with no speed restrictions on crossovers before 8s ran on it.