Now that Smith-9th Street is in use again, is there any word on the G Train to Church being reconsidered? Or is it still on a permanent basis?
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SlowFreight wrote:It appears to be permanent, by inertia if nothing else. Supposedly the funding has been continued. Now, if we could just get express service on all that new track with its new signal system....You raise a good point Slow (or should I say Mr. Freight). Especially since express service was previously dropped because of a fire damaging a switch wich has presumably been restored.
railfan365 wrote:Only problem with that is, with the Bergen St lower level express station abandoned (refer to map at http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/bergenst.html), the next stop for F express trains after Jay St would be 7th Ave, bypassing four local stops: Bergen, Carroll, Smith-9th, and 4th Ave. The only way to get to those stations from Manhattan F train stations would be (a) take the F express to 7th Ave, cross over and double back on the G local or (b) change at Jay St from F to A/C, go one stop to Hoyt-Schermerhorn, cross over and double back on the G. Neither would please F riders from Manhattan/Queens (or Boro Hall, for that matter), who have had direct service to their local stations all these years.SlowFreight wrote:It appears to be permanent, by inertia if nothing else. Supposedly the funding has been continued. Now, if we could just get express service on all that new track with its new signal system....You raise a good point Slow (or should I say Mr. Freight). Especially since express service was previously dropped because of a fire damaging a switch wich has presumably been restored.
eastwind wrote:Actually, your suggestion is quite good. The bigger question is whether the decision makers at NYC TA will see it our way.railfan365 wrote:Only problem with that is, with the Bergen St lower level express station abandoned (refer to map at http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/bergenst.html), the next stop for F express trains after Jay St would be 7th Ave, bypassing four local stops: Bergen, Carroll, Smith-9th, and 4th Ave. The only way to get to those stations from Manhattan F train stations would be (a) take the F express to 7th Ave, cross over and double back on the G local or (b) change at Jay St from F to A/C, go one stop to Hoyt-Schermerhorn, cross over and double back on the G. Neither would please F riders from Manhattan/Queens (or Boro Hall, for that matter), who have had direct service to their local stations all these years.SlowFreight wrote:It appears to be permanent, by inertia if nothing else. Supposedly the funding has been continued. Now, if we could just get express service on all that new track with its new signal system....You raise a good point Slow (or should I say Mr. Freight). Especially since express service was previously dropped because of a fire damaging a switch wich has presumably been restored.
If there were crossovers at 7th Ave (are there?), I suppose you could run local to 7th Ave and then express to Church Ave, bypassing two local stations, but what would be the point of that?
I remember Bergen St lower level from the few years in the 70's when rush-hour F trains ran express all the way to Kingshighway, using the middle track on the el beyond Church Ave. As I recall, it was damp, dim, and distressing. And a bit of a hike up the stairs to connect with the local on the upper level. No loss it's gone.
The only solution I can see that would allow some express service here would be to run every other F train express, as they did in the 70's. Trains to Kingshighway could run local both in the subway and (peak direction) on the el, and trains to Coney Island would run express. Would that be enough? Or would it be too confusing?
railfan365 wrote:Actually, your suggestion is quite good. The bigger question is whether the decision makers at NYC TA will see it our way.Thanks, but I didn't think it up. That's how F service ran for a little while, oh, forty years ago. That's when F service on the Culver was new, post-Chrystie Street. Prior to that, it was the D train, local all the way with R-9's (aka "cow trains"). Eesh.
railfan365 wrote: On the Flushing Line, 85% of the line is 3 tracks, the local trains are called by a 7 in a purple circle while the expresses are called by a 7 in a purple diamond, and the on train announcements plainly state the service. The circle/diamond designations, together with the electronical strip maps and side markers could be used along with announcements that refer to whether the train is going express or local.Circles and diamonds are subtle distinctions unless you're accustomed to looking for them. Electronic strip maps and side markers—ahh, didn't have those 40 years ago. Some things do improve with age.
Regarding eastwind's post, the reason why Culver Express service disappeared and didn't resume is that a switch damaged by fire and TA was either unwilling or unable to repair it.You mean the fire in 1999 was the thing that ended Culver express service... in the 1970's? Prior to 1999 Bergen Street interlocking was fully functional. Was there some other fire?
eastwind wrote: Which brings me back to my question: Why is it important to have F express service now? Has the line gotten crowded?I'll answer your second question first. During some of the rebuilding, there was a shoofly connecting the local track with the express track outside Carrol St (no switches involved), and no temporary platforms were built at Smith/9th the way they were at 4th/9th. Later, after platform work was completed, the shooflys were removed and track restored to the original alignments. At that time, trains sailed through without stopping until service was restored.
And I'd still like to know how trains bypassed Smith-9th during the recent rebuilding
SlowFreight wrote:I'll answer your second question first. During some of the rebuilding, there was a shoofly connecting the local track with the express track outside Carrol St (no switches involved), and no temporary platforms were built at Smith/9th the way they were at 4th/9th. Later, after platform work was completed, the shooflys were removed and track restored to the original alignments. At that time, trains sailed through without stopping until service was restored.Thanks for the explanation.
SlowFreight wrote:Now, as to your first question, the F is EXTREMELY crowded. Unlike the B and D, which run 8-car trains with traditional seating and almost always have room for a seat, the F runs 10-car trains with high-standee capacity bench seating, and from rush hour until about 11PM you will often be packed in and unable to move until Brooklyn. Bergen and Carrol are the heavy lifters, followed by 7th/9th and 4th/9th. So it's not necessarily about making the trip faster to CI as it is about freeing up seats for those people going past Park Slope.So running every other F as an express Jay St-7th Ave-Church Ave would do the trick? Or would that just lead to more crowding on the half-as-often F locals?