• CSX Track Upgrades & Infrastructure of Pan Am

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

  by CN9634
 
Where did you see that? Monadnock produced 27 boxcars worth of product in all of 2022… so not exactly a feasible rail user unless they are planning some kind of large scale capacity increase.
  by newpylong
 
Unlikely given the amount of investment needed for how small that plant is.
  by NHN503
 
They are looking at shipping by rail again and discussions have happened and quite recently too. A bridge survey is to be done this spring at the Contoocook River bridge which will most likely dictate how much further those discussions go.
  by hillsboyro
 
I think that bridge was completely rebuilt around the 1960s wasnt it? The other big bridge in Lyndeborough was redone in the 70s during the Dustin era. Leishman has been keeping everything usable up to Greenfield as well. I bet the section west of Wilton is better kept than the rest of the Hillsborough branch. And I hope the state puts up some funding. This has the potential to be VERY good for NH.

Editing to add on, Monadnock doesn't just produce carloads, it needs wood to turn it into paper. And the hopper for woodchips is still there. The paper mill can become a customer that produces and buys freight. All the track is still there, although they would need to rebuild the yard at Monadnock. The Contoocook bridge was covered over with wood for snowmobiles during the winter (I think) so they'll really need to take that off. But I hope the bridge itself doesn't need replacing.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=11528

Here is a is a GP7 going over the bridge with the boxcar and hoppercar needed to service the line back in the day. This is in 1983 during the early Guilford years.
  by NHV 669
 
The state owns west of MP 16.36 in Wilton as is, I don't see how CSX would have an interest in investing in track they don't own for such a minimal amount of carloads.
  by newpylong
 
And even if the bridge is sound any discussion will likely end when the mill gets their rate quote. CSX isn't going to want to increase service out the Hillbilly unless there are substantial carloads and it sounds like this isn't it.

It's too bad Suburban Propane stopped using rail entirely, having them get service in Milton might sweeten the deal.
  by CN9634
 
hillsboyro wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 4:13 pm I think that bridge was completely rebuilt around the 1960s wasnt it? The other big bridge in Lyndeborough was redone in the 70s during the Dustin era. Leishman has been keeping everything usable up to Greenfield as well. I bet the section west of Wilton is better kept than the rest of the Hillsborough branch. And I hope the state puts up some funding. This has the potential to be VERY good for NH.

Editing to add on, Monadnock doesn't just produce carloads, it needs wood to turn it into paper. And the hopper for woodchips is still there. The paper mill can become a customer that produces and buys freight. All the track is still there, although they would need to rebuild the yard at Monadnock. The Contoocook bridge was covered over with wood for snowmobiles during the winter (I think) so they'll really need to take that off. But I hope the bridge itself doesn't need replacing.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=11528

Here is a is a GP7 going over the bridge with the boxcar and hoppercar needed to service the line back in the day. This is in 1983 during the early Guilford years.
Having worked logistics both upstream and downstream at a few mills I can tell you the equation is simple. Inputs = outputs. To be a profitable paper enterprise you have to minimize waste and loses… this is where you have recovery processes throughout the production process to maximize output. There are no byproducts either, you make paper… my point here is that if your output is 27 boxcars your input is… 27 railcars worth of raws. I guess the only exception is utilities side if you’re generating power of steam, so for example coal for Rumford isn’t part of the pulp or paper process directly but does create carloads
  by GU1001
 
I once heard 100 carloads per mile per year to be viable. Does anyone know if that figure is still relevant? How many miles from end of serviceable track to the mill?
  by ST377
 
While I personally would really like to see cars to Monadnock again, I just can see the cost justification for 50-100 cars a year. Get Erving Paper back? Now you're talking traffic potential, especially now that ST management is out of the picture.
  by newpylong
 
Being on the main or already highly serviced trackage goes a long way on rates too.
  by NHV 669
 
GU1001 wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 10:14 am How many miles from end of serviceable track to the mill?
Guessing somewhere around 15 miles between the quarry and the mill (with roughly 2/3 of that still serviceable to Muzzey Hill?), and the whole thing down to Nashua is excepted track as is......
  by hillsboyro
 
I think it comes down to the state. If the state wants to invest a little money into it then it can work. But no chance CSX wants to rehab the entire branch on it's own when it doesn't own the track. Especially if Leishman still wants to open up a scenic railroad on the line. Then you have 3 possibly interested parties putting a little bit of money towards it and it should be relatively cheap. It just needs everyone working together which is...a dream.
  by NHV 669
 
Leishman is just an operator, he would have to rely on state funding himself to fix any of the track he runs on, considering everything west of Wilton Depot is NHDOT-owned. I can't imagine his seasonal operation providing a consistent flow of capital to fund big track repair projects.

I don't see any interested parties besides the mill, let alone three, and they're going to have to work pretty hard to convince the state to fund such substantial work on the line.
Last edited by NHV 669 on Sun Jan 22, 2023 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by johnpbarlow
 
WRT the possibility of Erving paper using B&E rail service, I have seen truck hauled JBHU containers around the plant in the past (I don’t pass through Erving often). Is it possible they’re already being drayed to/from CSX railhead at W Springfield?
  by QB 52.32
 
Given that their product is too light for boxcar to compete, except in certain niches, against 53' over-the-road trailers and intermodal containers, especially in a backhaul market like New England, you're on the money Mr. Barlow, though those JBHU containers could very well be moving over Ayer or Albany as well. Potential carload traffic might be heavier inbound raw materials like scrap paper. It's not an uncommon situation when considering any market or customer, including recent discussions about the grocery and fresh fruit and vegetable supply chains, and how railroads have not just one, but two products serving different segments within the overall marketplace.
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