CSX next Penn Central?

is csx turning into another PENNCENTERAL?? with these derailments i looks like it but time will tell.

It's really just a matter of greed and having a vision.

I think in time CSX is headed in the same direction as Penn Central was
in the late 60's and early 70's. In some ways it could even be worse as
CSX is more arrogant toward the public, their employees and probably
their customers as well.
If the present trend continues with slow orders and derailments all over
the place, eventually important customers will leave or cut way back and
that will cost the railroad. In addition, slow orders and derailments will
cause a big increase in their operating costs, this was one of the factors
that eventually caused the downfall of Penn Central.
It is pretty obvious that CSX does not like railfans but this can spill over
to people in government and other powerful positions and that will
eventually come back to haunt them.
Noel Weaver

I knew a number of PC survivors when I first hired out...and one thing they used to tell me: That in spite of the crappy power, the horrific track, the walking-speed trains...PC management and payroll left their men mostly alone.

The men in fact helped carry the company at critical times - they would be told not to cash their paychecks for a couple of weeks, to carry the company through...and most of them cooperated.

They kept working, and worked hard to actually move freight under less-than-ideal conditions.

The old-timers...granted, they saw the past through rose-colored glasses. But the less-educated of them thought the PC times were really the Golden Era. The physical plant was falling apart, but they and everyone around them were all making money, big time. A few of them didn't believe, even years later, that the Penn Central was really bankrupt - they thought it a scam to get government money for the top boys.

That was then. The men would do what they could for the company. How about now? MOST of us wish CSX would just fold up and die, and let whatever operator comes next to take over. It could get a lot worse, especially if the "New York Central Lines LLC" part of CSX were sold as an independent short line, giving us Class 2 wages...but ANYTHING would be better than the endless poking, prodding, spying, and citing for petty bullspit that we're putting up with now.

The day they tell us not to cash our checks....I'm RUNNING, not walking, to the bank to get my money. These ignorant, arrogant Florida jag-offs can go straight to Hades.

If CSX becomes another Penn Central Transportation Company...it won't hang on nearly as long.

Time will tell? CSX has already been around for more than 20 years. PC didn't last anywhere near that long. Take a look at some pictures of PC track and equipment. Then look at some of CSX. If you still really think that CSX is going the way of PC anytime soon, I don't know what to say.

Also, take what these ex-Conrail people say with a grain of salt. Most of them complained when CR was around, and said they could not wait for some railroad to take Conrail over. In fact, most were happy when CSX took over.

I noticed CN and CP just had a huge derailment. But over on the CN and CP boards, the subject has not been brought up. I did not see any silly topics comparing them to PC.

The fact of the matter is that derailments happen on every railroad.

CSX should have sold the ex CR territory to the UP....it would have made sense.

ever notice how many times this refrence and discussion comes up when CSX suffers a derailment on the former CR lines? Issues are not the same.

CSX should have sold the ex CR territory to the UP....it would have made sense

For whom??? Not for CSX!

ever notice how many times this refrence and discussion comes up when CSX suffers a derailment on the former CR lines? Issues are not the same

The issues are the same... no accident is acceptable... but the statistics aren't. Consider the facts: CR accidents 1995-99 (Jan-Jun) vs CSX 2004-2007 (Jan-Jun) (source: FRA): CR's percentage of accidents related to track conditions averaged 25%, CSX's ave was 28%, a 13% increase. But wait, before anyone spouts off about big, bad CSX... consider this: CSX's train accident rate over the same period is 19% LOWER than CR's; CSX's personal injury rate is a whopping 43% LOWER. And CSX's incident rate has a steady downward trend (CSX's 2007 train accident rate is about HALF of CR's prior to the breakup): Bottom line, CSX is proving to be a much safer railroad than CR ever was. Like it or not, those "ignorant, arrogant Florida jag-offs" have actually helped create a safer working environment!

Maybe it's time for those ex-CR T&E employees should stop waxing nostalgic about the good ol' days of CR and start working in their locals to push safety concerns with management in a proactive and collaborative manner.

I'm already leery of keeping this open--Penn Central vs. CSX seems apples to oranges---far different times............let's make sure we play nice, just a friendly reminder, okay gents?

Cowford, far be it from me to side with you on this issue. I certainly agree that no accident is acceptable. My point is that PC had numerous money and management issues along with a poor economy that caused the defered maintainance issues. CSX in the past 6 months has and is spending billions of dollars on replacing record amounts of ties and rail on the Albany Div. upgrading signal, dispatch systems adding sidings and capacity to keep pace with the economys growth this past year. The problem seems to have derived over the past several years as CSX began to run heavier, more frequent trains, with much more powerful locomotives. At the same time maintainance staffs were cut as CSX maintainance standards were different from Conrails. CSX trackforemen and managers have told me that Conrail expected 20 years of life from a segment of CWR. CSX expects 30 years. The same disparaty exsist for ballasting and tie issues. The Albany Division handles more trains dailey than any other CSX division, and has the most drastic changes of climate conditions of these divisions. Temperatures can range up to 40 degrees in difference from one day to the next(in Ohio the temp. the day before was plus 80 and dropped to the low 50's the next night, before the Painesville wreck.) with drought conditions followed by heavy rains. All these issues causing excessive stresses on the infastructure. The stats you posted showed an increase in track related derailments (only 3% increase, not the 13% you stated(typo?)) and a whooping 19% decrease in train accidents, 43% decrease in personal in juries. These stats prove the point that T&E and all CSX employees are infact doing our jobs much safer than under Conrail watch. CSX since the past years surge of accidents has tripled their track inspections, and infused billions into the infastructure. These repairs take time and improving conditions don't happen overnight. Sperry cars have been roving the system for the 4th time in 6 months recently and plopping down TSR here and there as before, but most are 50 mph vs. the 10's, 25's and 30's of last fall and winter. The infastructure maintainance issues, needs to catchup and keep pace with the human factor issues.
Point I am making is PC's and CSX's maintainance issues were very different indeed.
One last note: as far as x-CR T&E waxing nostalgia for CR, I was assigned to Miami 2 yaers ago on a temp. transfer and I heard very simular gripes and complaints from new and old CSX employees from Miami to Tampa and Sanford. And from T&E crews working in from the former B&O territories of Ohio. It's NOT just a former CR thing.

[/quote]The stats you posted showed an increase in track related derailments (only 3% increase, not the 13% you stated(typo?))

It's an increase of 3 percentage points, but a 13 percent increase.

No arguments with you here, Roadster. After overspending on CR and the traffic slump several years back, there's a lot of investment catch-up still to do.

To your point about the other crews grumbling, I'll paraphrase something I was told almost 30 years ago: "Railroaders always end up talking about four things: how much money they made, who's working where, how lousy management is, and sex. And they're usually too busy talking about the first three to talk about the last!"

THAT, has got to be the BEST anology, I've seen yet. LOL

More like CSX won't sPENNd a CENT-ral. At least until fairly recently.

The problem with the personal injury thing is there's some trick to how they're reported - if they fire a guy when he gets hurt, I think is what it is. How would I know? A close friend worked for them in a yard as a clerk. He got hurt - entirely the railroad's fault - guess what? They fired him. Normal procedure I guess these days - I know someone on NS who went through the same thing - but still terrible. I can't remember where I read about them using the terminations to avoid those reports - I can't vouch for it to be 100% accurate, but if anyone knows one way or the other feel free to add on or correct me.

My friend looks to be getting a settlement, but it won't be a whole hell of a lot for something that's left him with some permanent damage. They aught to just give him another 10 years pay plus lawyer's fees.


I tend to think these companies are too big for our own good, when there were more and smaller companies that had to work more with one another, they couldn't afford to pull some of these dirty tricks or cut corners the way they do now. There's just not enough competition anymore.

Thats complete BS that CSX would fire you outright for being injured on the job, especially when it's not your fault. I'm sorry to say, but this is yet another example of second and third hand information that is simply wrong. I know for a FACT, take a second and look at that word I am using, notice I'm not saying, Ohhh A friend of a friend of mine overhead that someone told him.....No, The fact is that if your negligence caused you to hurt yourself, or god forbid, somebody else, you deserve to be fired. You have no place on the railroad. FACT- CSX doesn't hide or "trick" how these things are reported. They are spelled out in detail to anyone who wants to know, and often to people who don't want to know. Any employee will tell you, when they call us in for our annual PACE class, they review, often in detail most of the accidents, derailments, and injuries that had occurred in the past year. Nothing is hidden. The FRA is very clear on what is reportable and what isn't.

All I am saying is that if CSX fires someone, odds are pretty darn good that they did something to warrant it.

CSX's track is in terrible shape; not just on ex-CR territory, but system-wide... I don't care about statistics; you cannot deny their physical plant is beginning to rot... That's the cause for most of these wrecks you hear of recently, is a broken rail or a sun kink or what have you...

For instance, on a recent trip to Brocton, NY, about 100 miles or so east of the Lake County wreck here, I noticed the NS line had fresh ballast, recently-made rail, and only slightly weathered ties, with a smooth track profile... CSX on the other hand had ancient ties, loose spikes everywhere, ancient ballast, and one of the tracks was straddling a deep mud puddle formed by poor drainage at the crossing... Trains would bounce and sparks would fly as they slammed over the bump at the "mudpuddle"... I have no idea how they got over it but they did...

It's not until you see CSX and NS track at the same time in the same place do you realize NS track does look much better... If CSX doesn't shape up they're gonna blow up a tanker in the wrong spot, and they'll pay the price for it I'm sure... I'm beginning to understand why the folks in Washington DC don't like the idea of CSX hauling Hazmat through the area...

>>MC