• CR on the Southern Secondary

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

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  by Tanker1497
R&DB "One more thing about the grant, it specifically states that it will impact Ocean, Monmouth and Middlesex Counties, The FIT is in Monmouth and Middlesex and the Southern is in Monmouth and Ocean."

I can only add that is wasn't written as such, it distinctly called out Howell individuality seperate from Ocean and Monmouth Counties. I think that's big. As in the FIT being rebuilt, most of it is in Howell, this solves many issues the cheapest way.

JohnFromJersey "Where did anyone hear about Clayton being sold?"

That info came through me in a post as a question from a single responce to the RT 72 bridge being repainted. It came from a not know poster from any train page but that of a historic ocean county page. The information could not be confirmed, but was added to the forum as in has anyone else heard this?

Directed at all of us:
Post on forums carry no dialect you can't hear whats the poster is trying to convey! Use of run on sentences, poor use of grammarly correct structure leads us to the wrong conclusions. Readers not stopping at the period on posts or not using one, causes the combining two thoughts or errors in everyones post. Not reading the post through the entirety cause even more issues. The last thing is members/posters sitting home reading the pages just to call someone out as being wrong, or dreamers isn't helping anything. Some of the posters here spend many hours out in the field taken photos, looking up information that others just don't want to do!
Listen to me lecture, I can't spell every third word. I think I can write but see three comma's in one my sentences.
But I retired 2 years ago and I'm looking forward to contributing to the forums, sometime satire and sometimes with real information? Its taken me 62 years to spell some big words on my own, I learn something new everyday.
  by CNJrailfan
Last edited by CNJrailfan on Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by pumpers
If the Farmingdale connection really happens, I wonder if they will mothball (whatever that means - car storage, OOS, ...?) the Southern from the Red Bank connection down to Route 33 (right where the connection to the Navy Weapons Center is). About 10 miles more or less..
  by Tanker1497
My guess is the track to Earle must remain in service either from Red Bank or from Farmingdale. It's closer from Farmingdale to Earle than Red Bank to Earle. But I have little knowledge of run arounds in Freehold to get the engine on the other end of train. If even that is needed, I had always thought that operations would be so much reduced if they put the engines on both ends. Working Woodhaven would be so much eaiser!
  by R&DB
Tanker1497 wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:22 pm My guess is the track to Earle must remain in service either from Red Bank or from Farmingdale. It's closer from Farmingdale to Earle than Red Bank to Earle. But I have little knowledge of run arounds in Freehold to get the engine on the other end of train. If even that is needed, I had always thought that operations would be so much reduced if they put the engines on both ends. Working Woodhaven would be so much eaiser!
There is a run-around in Freehold near Builders General. As you mentioned a few pages back (re: MDL) the Feds want rail access to military bases, so you are probably correct about the Earle connection.
The real question is if the Freehold - Farmingdale connection is opened and the Red Bank connection abandoned, will they put in a connection in Farmingdale from the FIT to the Southern Secondary southbound, creating a wye? A run-around in Farmingdale would also be useful for servicing Brick Recycling and Extech.
We shall see.
BTW your idea of locos at both ends makes lots of sense. I know SRNJ does that a lot.
  by Bracdude181
If Farmingdale to Freehold occurs then there may be an uncertain future for Farmingdale to Red Bank. It’s survival may depend on getting some more customers in Tinton Falls and points north. Fortunately I have heard that at the very least, Red Bank Recycling and Stavola are considering rail service. It’s hard right now because of NJTs weight restrictions and the costs of building a siding. Conrails poor attitude towards smaller customers doesn’t help either. Republic Services and ABC Supply Co could get cars but I don’t know if they want rail service.

Worst case they cut off the tracks somewhere after Earle then take the line out of service, but I’m not sure if that’s what they will do. They could do car storage on the line if they do it right.
  by CharlieL
The old Gold's lumber siding might be long enough for a runaround. Additionally, the yard within Earle parallel to the southern is certainly long enough for and has runaround capabilities. There was a small yard in Farmingdale at one time and that land should still be under NJT control, meaning belonging to the southern. A wye would be most useful, though.
  by RailsEast
Red Bank Recycling had almost all plans in place for a siding, including panel track for the siding laid out beside their plant. The local homeowners screamed so much that the town council shot it down and the panel track was removed.
I have heard nothing about Stavola wanting or needing service, local trucks serve their needs nicely (this is pre-Gateway information of course).
Republic Waste and ABC Supply in Tinton Falls have had their switches ripped out over the last 5 years which indicates no need on their part for rail service.
Not sure if the Navy would agree to any Southern operator using their facility, except for drilling purposes (which are extremely rare).
There are no customers or potential customers from MP 48 (NWS Earle) northbound to MP 38.5 (Red Bank) at this time. Brick Recycling is also at MP 48 and Extech is just south so a runaround in Farmingdale would be best.

Remember, for many years there was a Farmingdale runaround from Marl Ave southward along the Southern from MP 51 to approximately MP 51.5. There was an old gondola parked there for the longest time back in the early 90s iirc. Switches are long gone, but this location would be easy to resurrect. Old CNJ (and early CR) track charts show this passing siding.
Naturally, the best option would just be to build a leg from Gold's southward to the main to compliment the existing north leg where the Gold's siding comes off of the Southern to create a wye. Should still be RR property...
  by R&DB
The Southern was double tracked through Farmingdale for many years with the curve to the FIT double as well. The section from Main St to the FIT turnout also had a siding giving 3 tracks along Railroad Ave. Chris is correct in noting the siding south of Marl Rd. I know it lasted into the late 1990's. There is a photo in Tom Gallo and Bill Longo's book "Railroads of Monmouth County" clearly showing 3 tracks at Academy St.
As far as Republic Waste goes, they had rail service until the state had a problem with garbage trains IIRC. And Chris you're right about the Red Bank Recycling NIMBY refusal.
Any rail traffic growth on the Southern will most likely occur south (RR west) of Farmingdale.
Chris, if you zoom in on Google maps right by where the diamond used to be until you see the property lines, the land is set for a connection that never was built. Some one years ago had foresight.
The federal government mandated the connection from the PRR (FIT) to the CNJ (Southern Secondary) when Earle was created in the 1940s so they would be able to serve the base from two roads. PRR had trackage rights from Farmingdale to Earle.
  by Bracdude181
Forgot to mention. There’s also:

Petruzelli Bros in Eatontown
Globe Petroleum in Red Bank
Lawes Company in Red Bank
Monmouth Building Center in Red Bank

Globe and Lawes deal with diesel fuel, Petruzelli trucks out a lot of woodchips by truck, and Monmouth Building Center deals with lumber and brick.

@R&DB All things considered, there are more potential customers south of Farmingdale and there’s Seashore Lines in Lakehurst. So almost certainly most of the growth will be from Lakehurst to Farmingdale. Also, you mentioned that the state has a problem with garbage trains. Can you elaborate please?

@Railseast A few years back Conrail ripped out many switches for customer sidings on the line, regardless of whether or not any of the ex or potential customers wanted service. Some of the people who still have sidings were NOT happy about this as now they’d have to pay to put a new switch in, which can be very expensive.
  by CJPat
Just offering a thought on the discussion of resupplying Earle thru use of the FIT.

I can't say that I would know anything about how people would react, but I really can't imagine Jamesburg or Freehold being OK with box cars of ammunition threading through all the "residential area" and right through their downtown areas on the way to Earle. Jamesburg has a bird just thinking about passenger cars (MOM). People across the country are beginning to raise hell about tank cars passing through towns (just to use an example). For that alone, I would expect them to keep the connection from Red Bank.

And think about if they had to haul nukes again.

Even though the Coast Line passes thru Red Bank itself, freight and ammo have always gone that way so no one thinks about it anymore, hence no resistance from the people.

They might sneak the once or even twice a week freight through the FIT, but you will hear an unbelievable uproar if they try to run sand trains or ammo trains through the FIT. At least MOM was going to provide benefit to some of those people.

Just sayin'
  by Bracdude181
@CJPat The sad fact is many people see trains as big noisy machines that exist solely to block roads and keep people up at night. Public opinion regarding tank trains has been much more negative following the major oil train crash on the Montreal Maine and Atlantic railroad in 2014.

I’m not sure how people would react to more frequent freight trains from Jamesburg to Farmingdale. Truthfully I think we’d only be seeing 2 trains daily at most, (one train going to the Southern and back) provided Seashore Lines or Earle don’t develop a need for frequent rail service in the future.

I would imagine that shipping ammunition is safer by rail than by truck, but I do understand the concern. Your comment has me curious about the specialized boxcars Earle uses to transport weapons and ammunition from the ammo dumps to the port in Sandy Hook Bay. Wonder how they’d hold up in a worst case scenario. Let’s say a train crashes into a big tanker truck at a railroad crossing and the fuel inside ignites. What happens to the stuff inside the boxcar? Is it protected or not?

I’m fairly certain they would keep the connection with the Southern in Red Bank just to use as an alternative route as needed. Having two routes to Earle and Fort Dix could be useful god forbid WWIII ever starts.
  by RailsEast
It was related to me by a township official years ago that any ordinance transported via rail through Colts Neck/Middletown is the body assembly and armament section only. Warheads and fuel go a different route so there is no imminent danger to the surrounding area.
It would take an extraordinary, Hollywood movie-type 'perfect storm' scenario to cause a serious situation along the rail route.
  by CJPat
RailsEast, I know you are right, but get the common NIMBY to believe & accept it.
  by Bracdude181
@Railseast What about gunpowder and ammunition, or torpedos for submarines? Can they come down the Coast Line?
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