Discussion relating to the past and present operations of CPR. Official web site can be found here: CPKCR.com. Includes Kansas City Southern. There is also a KCS sub-forum for prior operations: kansas-city-southern-and-affiliates-f153.html

Moderators: Komachi, Ken V

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
RandallW wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:49 pm Since there are three lawsuits against the STB claiming that allowing the two railroads to merge was wrong, it may make sense for CPKC to not bother to paint anything if they have genuine uncertainty that CPKC will be a thing in a year.
Mr. Randall W, I wholly agree with you that the matter of CPKC locomotive livery and the timing as to when there will be a systemwide "reliverying" is really quite inconsequential. For what it be worth, United Airlines, a transportation company far more on the public's "image screen" than is any railroad, announced (surely not planned) a "relivering" of their aircraft on the eve of the pandemic three years ago. Well, there are still, or at least the last time I had occasion to be out at ORD, quite a number of aircraft in the former livery.

Now, here are two pending matters of interest within the judiciary regarding CPKC:

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/metra ... r-approval

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/union ... kcs-merger

I don't give the METRA matter a "chinaman's chance". What if, going back to my day at the MILW (70-81), we suddenly "struck it rich" and there was more freight traffic resulting in either commuter trains (which, along with the intercity trains as RPSA70 had yet to be enacted, were run for the MILW's own account when I hired on) or motorists being delayed at X-ings. The answer, I believe, would have been nothing. These communities grew up along the railroad which was there first.

Now so far as the UP seeking to "unmerge" CPKC, I think the courts will remand the whole matter to the regulatory agency (STB) which may or may not impose some conditions somewhere on CPKC.
  by eolesen
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 6:38 am For what it be worth, United Airlines, a transportation company far more on the public's "image screen" than is any railroad, announced (surely not planned) a "relivering" of their aircraft on the eve of the pandemic three years ago. Well, there are still, or at least the last time I had occasion to be out at ORD, quite a number of aircraft in the former livery.
To be fair.... United's recoloring isn't rebranding. The name is still correct. One thing that airlines try not to tolerated is having airplanes with the wrong name flying around.

Meanwhile, there are supposedly a couple SP and CNW patched Dash 9s still rolling on the UP, and possibly a SSW GP35 or two. We're talking 25 + years post-merger here...

I remember working at JFK the day Pan Am was merged into Delta, and the flight from Paris to JFK was delayed two hours "awaiting paint job".... but once the name is changed, the colors don't matter. My ex-PeoplExpress 727s were still flying with beige fuselages and red/orange stripes more than eight years after they merged with Continental.

Given all the bleeding, stopping the dedicated repaint lines in 2020 was a smart move financially.

Hundreds of airframes got parked and put into long term storage, which slowed down the clock on planned overhauls. New deliveries from Boeing and Airbus were also pushed out during the pandemic, so the airplanes they would have replaced (and weren't planned to be repainted) wound up sticking around a little longer.

Still, the repainting is roughly around 50% done.

https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfle ... n-progress
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Well Mr. Olesen, next flight is set for final weekend January to Miami on "the only airline I know" (United). It will be interesting to see if any more reliverying has been done. Southward, it's a B37M (MAX), so safe assumption that will have the "new" livery. Return is a 739, so that will be a "flip a coin".

But considering the minimal change between the liveries, I must wonder....why? But I'm just a paying passenger, and not any kind of airfan (well, maybe I am in that I always book - and often pay dearly for such - an unobstructed view window seat, as flightseeing is far more interesting to me that whatever is on those reportedly ad-filled screens).
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by eolesen
 
It's a break with the final vestiges of Continental... that livery is a daily reminder of what happened 14 years ago, and not everyone is happy with the outcomes.
  by NHV 669
 
CP units 4432 and 6011 have come out of a rebuild, both in a fresh CP livery... I don't believe these are the only recent repaints.

So much for that new employee picked scheme...
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:11 am Well Mr. Olesen, next flight is set for final weekend January to Miami on "the only airline I know" (United). It will be interesting to see if any more reliverying has been done. Southward, it's a B38M (MAX), so safe assumption that will have the "new" livery. Return is a 738, so that will be a "flip a coin".
Well, both flights ended up with 738's, so my first flight on a MAX must wait for another day. Uh, I'm "not exactly into 'airfan joyrides'".

So far as liveries go, the Outward aircraft was "new" liveried; return? too many people blocking the window @ MIA (and no chance deplaning at ORD: "oh pardon me; I just wanted to see how the plane is painted" :-D :-D )
  by oibu
 
Time will tell but pretty sure that at least near term a "CPKC" paint scheme is a myth, They almost certainly wouldn't be continually churning out :canadian Pacific: locomotives a year past d-day if the railroad;s scheme is not going to be "canadian Pacific" for the foreseeable future.

If anything, I;d bet that that CPKC scheme will be a limited run on a new loco order or maybe be the scheme on former KCS units. Anyone know if any KCS units have been painted post-merger?

For sure if KCS units get painted CP, CPKC paint is as real as a unicorn aside from some special unit or group at some point.

I certainly hope so!
  by jwhite07
 
I think RandallW's post above is the most likely reason why CPKC's paint booths haven't been humming churning out new repaints. Maybe someone learned from the "Shouldn't Paint So Fast" episode in the 80s. But regardless of how and when the legal issues are resolved, goodness knows there is plenty of fodder in desperate need of repainting from both rosters - hordes of older units still in dinged up faded CP Rail, KCS Grey Ghosts, the KCS units picked up secondhand from BNSF and still running around in Uncle Warren's orange and green... just remains to be seen what paint they do receive.
  by oibu
 
Think is, they HAVE been painting, so far all I've seen is CP/CP repaints so the only question will be, do KCS units get repainted at all, and if so will they be normal CP or CPKC. So far nothing to suggest anything but CP paint for CP units.

Usually if anything RRs are over-optimistic with this sort of thing and would paint some former KCS unit as CPKC right away... even if they never once did a second one. So the fact that they haven't done it even just to get the image out there in the press as an isolated PR stunt at this point doesn't seem to suggest that there is really too much to it. There is always opposition to big mergers, but this one certainly doesn't seem like one that would raise any unusual concerns given the types of BNSF, CN, CSX, NS, etc empires that already have existed for 20-30 years. Pretty much just finally brings CP into the same realm as the other "big" far-flung modern CLass I's.
  by NHV 669
 
KCS 4805 also now wears the new scheme, both units led train 251 from KC to St. Paul last week.