CMSL service Rio Grande to Cape May

Dcell wrote:How much does Macrie pay NJT to lease this rail line? Betcha it's $1/year. Such a deal for a foamer! Cheaper than a Lionel train set, though a Lionel set would rack up more miles of use in a year compared to Tony's Toy Railroad.

Absent the lease, the tracks would not be used at all, and if any brush cutting or other work was required it would be at the taxpayers's expense. Better to have a chance at trains than a certainty of zero.

If we want to keep this post moving in a positive direction, everyone should understand that had it not been for Tony Macrie and his CMSL, the tracks would have been torn up long ago. Here is a railfan and a small railroad operator that has gone through great expense and trouble to keep the line viable but there is a limit to what can be done on a shoestring budget with limited resources and equipment.
We travel to our summer home in Cape May on a regular basis each summer and it pains me to see the tracks empty and overgrown. If someone can write a check for $1 million tomorrow, I am sure that things would change but who is going to invest in a railroad line that can at best hope to break even?
The only way that we might see this line ever running again is if the entire line is converted into a non-profit state historical railroad museum with Tony as curator. Then the CMSL could apply for grants, hold fundraisers, gather volunteers, and be affiliated with the NJ Department of State that oversees all of the other museums in NJ. I do not know if this was ever suggested but it may be an idea worth consideration.

How is it the New Hope and Ivy, NYSWT&HS, Saratoga and North Creek all make it work? Cape May has lots of tourists, many who are affluent and willing to spend $ yet EVERY year there is an excuse. What do other tourist lines do if they have these problems that seem to plague the CMSL?

CMSL is too busy cutting weeds on Claytons dream tracks to be bothered with anything down Cape May way. Check out the Woodmansie log and that explains everything. MOM is coming in 2043 so that will take care of everything South Jersey way.

One of the reasons that CMSL suffers is a lack of advertising. Their website says for months an months 'Schedule Coming Soon' and nothing ever develops. If they posted some bills or posters along the routes to Cape May like Delsea Dr, GSP, ACE, even route 42 of I676 in Camden, advertising might catch the eye of the shore-goers that are inundated with Casino bills going over the bridges into Philly. Don't get me wrong, I know the recent track issues down south have been crippling, but they have gone a long time without making much money from any service because no one knows about the line.

What I will say here is my guess on the CMSL and why it is not running to Cape May City. There is no evidence to substantiate this so let me go on and provide my take on what is happening.
First off, it is common knowledge that vandals destroyed about 1 mile of track, that would need to be repaired before any trains could move South from Tuckahoe. Second, I cannot see that there is any money to be made on this railroad route, unless it perhaps ran every day with full trains out of Cape May. More importantly, where is the money going to come from to repair the track and get the operation started again?
I would also like to see trains pulling into Cape May station once again. Most kids and many adults would love to ride the train again. We are in Cape May many weeks each summer and would ride it. Rail fans from all over might come but will they provide the revenue needed to keep the railroad operational?
The bottom line is that any business exists for the purpose of making money. Expenses for employees, insurance, FRA inspections, maintenance, fuel, repairs, taxes etc. can be significant. While Tony has been a good guy about it and ran the operation for many years (most likely without ever making a cent) there are limits to what can be done on a shoestring budget. I do not have an answer on what it would take to get CMSL trains running again. My idea is a proposal to make the CMSL a state railroad museum, appoint Tony curator and apply for state funding but with the states shortage of revenue, it is an unlikely scenario. Rather than continue the speculation, complaints and criticism of Tony lets just wait this one out, hope for the best and see what results.

That letter hits the nail on the head - and yes it should be public. Maybe, just maybe, we might get answers if it is public. At this point, the whole thing is a lost cause, which is a shame. It almost seems like there is a personal pride issue there, and thats the biggest hold up with all of this. Volunteers could do a lot of work, work sessions, clean up the place and make it look more presentable. Just because there aren't trains running past such and such a point, doesn't mean there can't be railroad events or very short rides. how far is the Catskill Mountain ride out of Kingston NY? Not very far, but very popular.

It just seems like there is a waiting for money to come, but the money isn't going to come if there is no reason for the money to come. And right now, there really is no reason for the money to come. So it won't. it really is a perfect chicken or egg example......

JT, took the words right out of my mouth with the "chicken or egg" reference. Now I`m sorry if I`m sounding naive in asking this, but asking is the only way to find out.......what exactly is the reason for not running trains at least on the Tuckahoe-Richland portion of the line? I have been helping a friend of mine restoring the PRR caboose in the park next to Richland station over the last couple months, and it saddens me to see nothing running on even this portion of the line. I know its Conrails tracks, does this have something to do with it? They`ve obviously run trains to Richland in the past, so why not now?
My point in asking this, other than just to find out, is about money. If the excuse for not running trains to Cape May is no money to make necessary track repairs, etc, wouldnt running trains at least on this section provide some sort of income? If advertised well, and some degree of schedule consistency could be returned/maintained, I don`t think itd be a flop, even after fuel/crew/maintenance costs. My personal opinion for lack of interest from the general public in this railroad, is that the inconsistency of the entire operation has made people not even care anymore. It irks me to keep hearing the "no money" excuse. If you don`t run trains, you wont have an income. Wishing and hoping for state money at this point is pointless. Again, I`d be the last to claim I know everything about everything, but does what I`m saying seem to make sense? Thoughts?

I thought this project was a "can't miss" with the amount of tourism in the area and I supported the operation while it was running. It was within walking distance of the County Zoo, downtown Cape May Courthouse, Cold Spring Village and the Washington St. Mall. While Mr. Macrie is a good person and incredible source of South Jersey Railroad History he may not be a business man. For the initial rehab on the line, he did a good job of securing grant money from an obscure source but must not have had or followed a business plan to grow the company or make the needed community relations. Finding some PRSL P-70 coaches and saving most of the PRSL RDC's was great work but what was the plan to rebuild and make them operational?

To rebuild and restart the company a new business plan with capital is needed. Maybe some new investors, maybe another grant, maybe an alliance or partnership with another rail group or organization. The story about a guy who loves trains and is starting a railroad is old news down there. I believe there is still car storage money income, how about a loan for 1 mile of track at class 1 standards ?

I hope there is a plan in the works.

The story of the CMSL is an interesting one, and brings up a very important point in the rail preservation and tourist operation industry: what's the "secret sauce" that makes one operation popular and another barely hanging on? I thought of this while visiting Steamtown for the first time on Monday. In the not too large city of Scranton, they are able to run a tourist train seven days a week, and even a competing trolley operation four days a week. And were somehow able to get it all together years ago to create this resource. Now of course I realize that there are problems at Steamtown, number one being that they don't have any operating steam right now (!) and tons of equipment in the yard that is just decaying with no seemingly no interest in restoring them. Nevertheless, it was pretty busy for a random Monday, and the excursion runs were popular. Then you have the CMSL, which even without the full line of operation, it does operate in tourist central.

I'm sure funding is certainly one aspect. But, when you see the class act operation the CMRR is able to run on a shoestring budget (notwithstanding the current conflict with Ulster County), it makes you wonder what the secret sauce is so that all tourist operations can apply it.

I wonder if thjey really want to run trains down in cape May. The theifts were over a year and a half ago and the crooks and scrapyard got caught. They are supposed to paying for damage. The carstoreing money could have been used to fix the rails but got new lites at crossings. There was no trains at Easter. Maybe the just got tiered.

With the coal trains cut down to far and few between, what is the status of the track inspection requirement? If I recall, to run any rail operations, the track had to be inspected prior to a run (if sporadic) or weekly if the run was regular? I believe the cost of the inspection alone was around $5k a few years ago. The Richland to Tuckahoe run capitalized on NS inspecting their freight track for the coal train operations and that would adequately allow CMSL to run their tourist train on the weekends.

Now that the Coal trains are so sporadic, I assume that CMSL doesn't have that benefit to cover the track inspection requirement which might help explain why they are not operating. During a typical summer weekend a couple of years ago, I think CMSL offered something like 4-5 round trips a day. I am guessing that generated about $4-$5K per day gross. I could see how a $5K track inspection would make it impractical to operate a pax run. Which, it would appear, is why it is so key to get the additional freight service up and running both down south and at Woodmansie. The car storage money is probably just enough to keep the doors open and functioning, but not much more.

Just a lot of reaching in the fog. I like Mr. Macrie's operation and only wish he could generate the increased revenue he needs to make a better go at this line. I don't see anyone else lined up begging to take over so if CMSL calls it quits, NJT will probably get a small bit of scrap money for ripping up the tracks and getting it off their books. CMSL is the only team in that town. Either support him or break out the rippers.

CJPat wrote:With the coal trains cut down to far and few between, what is the status of the track inspection requirement? If I recall, to run any rail operations, the track had to be inspected prior to a run (if sporadic) or weekly if the run was regular? I believe the cost of the inspection alone was around $5k a few years ago. The Richland to Tuckahoe run capitalized on NS inspecting their freight track for the coal train operations and that would adequately allow CMSL to run their tourist train on the weekends.
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I was wondering the same thing. Good point. JS

Just a quick refresh or on the timing of Track Inspections ...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/213.233

CMSL is the only team in that town. Either support him or break out the rippers.


How can you support it when it never runs?