CMSL Cape May (NJ) Seashore Lines Non-Passenger Operations

JohnFromJersey » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:16 am

If you are referring to the track from Lakehurst to Woodmansie, they can't buy it from Conrail because Conrail doesnot own it, Clayton Block and Sand does. NJSL is designated buy Clayton to operate the line if ever there is traffic.

Just curious, does anyone know of any potential customers along the Southern Sec (besides Clayton Sand) between Lakehurst and Chatsworth? I've been looking into what can be done on this section of the ROW. Maybe railcar storage if there's no other customers?

U

Bracdude181 wrote:Just curious, does anyone know of any potential customers along the Southern Sec (besides Clayton Sand) between Lakehurst and Chatsworth? I've been looking into what can be done on this section of the ROW. Maybe railcar storage if there's no other customers?

Unfortunately south of Woodmansie the rails essentially disappear in places. Just south of the loop they had going out to their sand pit there are still overgrown rails where they would store hoppers but that's all in pretty bad shape now. Just outside the truck entrance to Clayton's Sand operation the rails are either buried or have been removed. If you follow the ROW south of Clayton you can make it out but only barely. The bridge crossing Rt72 is still there with the rail intact but either way north or south the ROW is pretty well covered in pine trees now. It would take QUITE a bit of work and money to rehab any portion of the line south of Clayton's sand operation. Unfortunately besides NJ's biggest industry, Residential dwellings, there aren't any industries down there other than maybe Clayton that would warrant that kind of financial investment to rehab the line that far south. I mean heck, the state of NJ can't even get the line from Toms River/Lakehurst rehabbed to move people from one of the most populated areas now! Sad state of affairs. If I win the lottery I'll buy it all and make my own 1:1 railroad layout on it.

Although a few years old, these photos illustrate the portion of line being discussed.
I assure you, the track hasn't gotten better with time!

Clayton Siding - note the points have not been installed on the switch: (both shots are looking north)

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4104583

Closer look:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4104587

Rt 72 overpass:

Looking south:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3969775

Looking north:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3969776

Ben

Between Woodmansie and Chatsworth, there is nothing but pine trees. No industries. Along Savoy Blvd, which parallels the tracks from Woodmansie to Chatworth, there are a few houses on the north side of Savoy. We just had a discussion of the old abandoned mine (labelled as an abandoned Zinc mine) that used to have service in the 1950s. Mine was relatively short lived. As you approach Cnty 563, the main road running north-south through the center of Chatsworth, you will see the remains of the passing siding they had in support of their rail station or for uploading produce.

This may help. Here is a collection of CNJ track maps to include the Southern Division. I think this represents 1974 (?)
http://raildata.railfan.net/cnj/homecnj.html

If you want the track map just south of Woodmansie, go to "NJ Southern Branch" and select "Milepost 78.0 to 86.9" These maps indicated crossings, sidings, bridges, and track grades.

@Scottso699 There has been some rail theft between Woodmansie and Chatsworth, but everything else is still there for the most part. Surprisingly the rails between Chatsworth and Lakehurst are more straight and with less low spots than Conrail's portion from Lakehurst to Red Bank!

@liftedjeep I've seen some of those pictures before. There's definitely some rough areas of track there. Especially the overpass. I wouldn't run anything over that!

@CJPat There might be one potential customer along Savoy Blvd but I'd have to go look for myself. Chatsworth has a large facility called Ocean Spray which is a produce wholesaler. That place could probably justify 2-3 cars every other day or so, but it will take more than just one customer to justify the cost of track repairs. (1 million per mile of track) There might be 1-2 more in Chatsworth but again I'd have to look for myself.

As for Whiting, there's a few people with businesses near the tracks at Lacey Rd. Some of them might be potential customers but I'm still doing research into these places. No potential customers in Lakehurst right now, unless someone decides to start using the old Oceangro loading station again. Maybe they could transloading like they did back in the 80s.

They still could do railcar storage between Woodmansie and Chatsworth. It's 4-5 miles of track to repair plus whatever needs to be done at Route 72. Probably wouldn't need a total overhaul since it's only railcar storage. Come in and replace most of the rotten ties and reballast in spots. That's what I'd do at least.

Passing siding at Chatsworth:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3969779

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3969780

The grade crossing at Rt 563 (Main St) in Chatsworth has been removed as well.

This is the "official" end of the line, just prior to Rt 563. At least it's getting some recognition!

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5436335

Ben

@liftedjeep Nice little Blue Comet memorial there. Tracks look like they are in bad shape indeed. That might not even meet the FRA "Excepted Track" standard, which is the bare minimum standard a track has to meet for any kind of use. If Ocean Spray and one or two more want rail service, then perhaps rebuilding the track to Class 1 standards (10 MPH freight and 15 MPH passenger) would be the best way to go.

Liftedjeep--The switch, you have posted, and connecting rail at Clayton Sand has all been replaced. NJSL repaired and for the most part rehabilitated all the rails from Lakehurst to Woodmansie. I had a hi railer trip over the entire 13 miles two years ago. All crossings have been upgraded with flashers and gates. There are some signals installed at several crossings to alert the engineer of the condition of the crossing. The tracks are in great shape now waiting for Clayton Sand to give the signal (no pun intended ) to start in conjunction with Conrail to make improvements from Lakeland to Lakehurst. Waiting for pictures of the new Lakehurst crossing equipment.

And....the new administration is, I believe, friendly to the Tunnel project (unlike the previous administration). Yes, David, the line is ready to go to down to the now rebuilt switch off of the Southern for the pit, a bit north of the Rt.73 overpass. The groundwork is in place; hope springs eternal...
There is no railroad future south of Woodmansie, no matter the chatter here or elsewhere.
Chris

Ahhh Chris do to give up on the tracks south to Chatsworth. There are some reasonable ideas afloat that will be made public in the future. Times are difficult right now. Perhaps after this pandemic has eased, more will be made clear about the entire Southern line.

@David Oh please don't tease us lol.

I've heard that CSX has wanted this line for years now to use as a detour for the Trenton Sub. I personally don't think that will happen, but never say never.

Just on the line South to Chatsworth, I have something to say on that, but typing it will take some time and I'm busy chasing the SA31 with some friends, so it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Before I begin, here's an update on the Union Ave repairs.

The wiring and foundations for the new lights are in place. The crew who did the work was a Kentucky based crew, I assume they haven't returned yet due to current out-of-state quarantine recommendations by the CDC. Expect a cantilever style crossing when all is said and done. I'll try to get some pictures uploaded on here, but it's tricky because you can't upload pictures directly.

Well, my curiosity of potential customers got the best of me and I searched the entire line between Lakehurst and Chatsworth to get a better idea of what I believe can be done with this line.

Starting in Lakehurst. No potential customers in town at the moment, unless someone decides to put the old OceanGro station to use or do another form of transloading. There's enough room for a small platform to be built should NJ Seashore Lines decide to do excursions.

Moving south to Whiting, where I found at least two potential customers. The first is Brewer Septic. They do septic tank cleaning and repairs in Ocean and Monmouth. They could fill up a tank car with septic waste and have it transported to a waste handling facility. This can be accomplished by leaving a tank car on the siding in Whiting and gradually filling it until it's shipped to wherever it would go.

The next potential customer is J&L Carpets, right next door to Brewer Septic. This company sells and installs carpets and other types of floor materials, so they would likely receive a boxcar loaded with flooring materials. They could have their own spur built or they can unload from the aforementioned siding. The only other business in town that could get rail service is Berge HVAC-R which is across from Manchester Blvd, but I'm not really sure if these guys get their stuff in often enough to justify a rail shipment. They deal with water heaters mainly, so maybe they could get pipes and A/C units by rail? Idk

I only found one potential customer in Woodmansie. Hanson Aggregates. They make a lot of concrete by the looks of it, perhaps enough to fill up a car or two a week. The only other business near the tracks is Pro Tech Marine. They have a siding that once crossed Savoy Blvd. I doubt they could get cars unless they get boat parts in frequently enough to justify a boxcar at least once every 1-2 weeks. Otherwise, it's hard to justify rebuilding that siding.

Lastly, we have Chatsworth. This is the only other town in the area that could get anything by rail. There's absolutely nobody along the line until Winslow Junction from here on.

Chatsworth is home to Ocean Spray which is a large produce wholesaler. Looks like the local farms keep this well stocked, as there's a large number of trucks in there. This place could have 5-10 or more reefer cars loaded and shipped out once or twice a week by the looks of it. I'm just not sure if repairing the line from Woodmansie onwards just for Ocean Spray is justifiable.

The only other business next to the tracks in Chatsworth is a bit of a mystery. I haven't been able to find out anything about this place, but it looks like a grain wholesaler. It's on Chatsworth Barnegat Rd behind the Blue Comet monument with trailers parked on the property. Any info on this place would be appreciated.

Should none of these business want rail service, then railcar storage can be done from Woodmansie to Chatsworth. All that would need to be done is the tracks would have to be rebuilt to a certain standard. (Excepted Track I think) Not much else can be done with Woodmansie to Winslow. I have been hearing that CSX might take over the whole line from Winslow to Red Bank (or Farmingdale if they rebuild to Freehold) to use as a permanent detour for some oil trains that currently use the Philadelphia Subdivision, as there have been concerns about running the trains on the old infrastructure. I don't think this will happen, but never say never.

The only other reason to rebuild all the way to Winslow (in my opinion) would be to connect both of the Seashore Lines divisions together, making a mainline between Lakehurst and Cape May. This probably won't happen either, as much as I'd like to see it. Do some locals from Tuckahoe and Lakehurst, and run a transfer between the two yards with SD38-2s. Would be a real interesting operation.

That's about all I have to say for right now. What do y'all think of Woodmansie to Winslow or just to Chatsworth? Can it be done?

Good job Bracdude181!

@David Thank You. I've been thinking about it more and I'm liking the idea of joining the two divisions together to make one network. Especially if it means a Lakehurst to Tuckahoe transfer and back, stopping to work larger customers as needed. (Like Clayton Sand and Ocean Spray) Could see two locals from Tuckahoe too. One does Tuckahoe to Cape May while the other does Tuckahoe to Ocean City and back. Car storage on the BL England spur or maybe a transloading station at BL England. It would be a great operation to railfan.