BR&W Lambertville-Ringoes

wolfboy8171981 wrote:For everyone- Just keep in mind that the BR&W/BRRHT hasnt forgotten about Lambertville service. The time is nearing, but the time isnt right just yet. But the question I'm not afraid to ask is, will you ride or will you just take pictures.

I'll do both! The last time I was on that thing was 1997 (I think) with either my parents, or maybe even me shooting "photography" with a focus free, 35mm kodak P&S camera for christmas cards.

Now, a bit more of a discussion about the railroad itself. What are the chances of a Buisness opening up alongside the tracks in between Ringoes-Lambertville?

Chessie GM50 wrote: Now, a bit more of a discussion about the railroad itself. What are the chances of a Buisness opening up alongside the tracks in between Ringoes-Lambertville?

I do not think there will ever be any freight into the City of Lambertville for a long time if ever. There was once a transflo operation down at the very end of track, but the city complained about all the trucks so the railroad playing the good neighbor caved in and closed it down. In the early 90's Neice Lumber had a fire and either closed down, or cut back and does not receive lumber by rail.

The line from Ringoes to Rt 29 goes a very rural area of Hunderton Co. Rt 179 is near by, however most of the bridges are low ( about 8' high). It is all mostly farm land. For a lack of a better term, the area around the line is mostly unchanged in the 40 years the BR&W has owned it.

I'd love to ride this section again. I rode it once many years ago and it was a very pretty ride. My other main memory was that it was a very slow ride - I guess it was towards the end of the service and the track was not in good condition. There was a lot of lateral motion in the coaches and we weren't going very fast. I was fortunate enough to be in New Hope once or twice when 40 and 60 were both operating on opposite sides of the river. I'm sure people were grumbling somewhere, but eveyone I was with loved the 'whistle-fest' echoing across the Delaware. Would be great to have that happen again.

I doubt it will ever happen, but it would be nice to see the line revived including the stretch between Lambertville and Milford! I heard a ruhmor a while ago about possibly putting in a light rail from Trenton North, but with the current Administration and the State's Finances, I doubt we will ever see that happen. But a nice thought anyway.

The biggest problem is that the old ROW from Lambertville (actually south and thru Lambertville) to Frenchtown is part of the D&R Cannal State Park.

wolfboy8171981 wrote:The biggest problem is that the old ROW from Lambertville (actually south and thru Lambertville) to Frenchtown is part of the D&R Cannal State Park.

Since one of the MOM routes goes through Monmouth Battlefield State Park, and that section of track is currently an active freight line, and that MOM route hasn't been ruled out (yet) because of it, how can there be an objection if rail gets active again in the D&R Canal park?

SomervilleRailfan wrote:

wolfboy8171981 wrote:The biggest problem is that the old ROW from Lambertville (actually south and thru Lambertville) to Frenchtown is part of the D&R Cannal State Park.

Since one of the MOM routes goes through Monmouth Battlefield State Park, and that section of track is currently an active freight line, and that MOM route hasn't been ruled out (yet) because of it, how can there be an objection if rail gets active again in the D&R Canal park?

I would think these are two seperate issues. I've worked the Freehold Line, and never seen a sole when we passed thru Monmouth. The D&R uses the railroad/tow path as part of the main attratction.

Running through the park could also be a good thing -

That means that the state owns the property and ROW, and its not in private hands!

If they REALLY wanted to, they could accomidate both the tracks and walkway, it might require some work, but it could be done. It would be an interesting twist on the Canal part of the park, in that the Canal was first, then the Railroad came in and that became the favored mode of transport. Running a train (and excusions thorugh) could really become part of the park, and an attraction in and of itself!

Wishful thinking, I know, but hey.......

Jtgshu wrote:Running through the park could also be a good thing -

That means that the state owns the property and ROW, and its not in private hands!

If they REALLY wanted to, they could accomidate both the tracks and walkway, it might require some work, but it could be done. It would be an interesting twist on the Canal part of the park, in that the Canal was first, then the Railroad came in and that became the favored mode of transport. Running a train (and excusions thorugh) could really become part of the park, and an attraction in and of itself!

Wishful thinking, I know, but hey.......

if you think about it, that might make the park appeal a bit more to families with young children/ a bit more to history buffs. It could show the evolution of transportation. 3 modes, the canal, railroads, and one that barely costs you a dime...

Chessie GM50 wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:Running through the park could also be a good thing -

That means that the state owns the property and ROW, and its not in private hands!

If they REALLY wanted to, they could accomidate both the tracks and walkway, it might require some work, but it could be done. It would be an interesting twist on the Canal part of the park, in that the Canal was first, then the Railroad came in and that became the favored mode of transport. Running a train (and excusions thorugh) could really become part of the park, and an attraction in and of itself!

Wishful thinking, I know, but hey.......

if you think about it, that might make the park appeal a bit more to families with young children/ a bit more to history buffs. It could show the evolution of transportation. 3 modes, the canal, railroads, and one that barely costs you a dime...

Two more, the parallel vehicular roadway and the Delaware River itself which was the mode of transportation for log rafts, canoes, etc.

I'm curious, what is the mileage from Three Bridges to Lambertville? Are there any special trips that ever run to Three Bridges? It would be nice to have a special excursion from Flemington to Ringoes, then to Three Bridges and back to Flemington with #60. Is the ex-CNJ track gone past Three Bridges through Neshanic Station to Somerville? Why didn't BR&W ever consider acquiring that line way back to have a longer excursion route the other way out of Flemington? They could have run Flemington-Neshanic and back. I'm confused about the tourist train operation, is the BRRHT seperate from the BR&W, did the BR&W once operate the excursion trains themselves but the BRRHT was formed and now operates the trains for BR&W? When did #60 steam last? Was it 10 years ago?

rwk wrote:Is the ex-CNJ track gone past Three Bridges through Neshanic Station to Somerville? Why didn't BR&W ever consider acquiring that line way back to have a longer excursion route the other way out of Flemington? They could have run Flemington-Neshanic and back.

Probably same reason the CNJ stopped using the line before ConRail, the weak railroad bridge at Three Bridges. BR&W did acquire to the Hunterdon County line, but no more into Somerset County.

rwk wrote:I'm curious, what is the mileage from Three Bridges to Lambertville? Are there any special trips that ever run to Three Bridges? It would be nice to have a special excursion from Flemington to Ringoes, then to Three Bridges and back to Flemington with #60. Is the ex-CNJ track gone past Three Bridges through Neshanic Station to Somerville? Why didn't BR&W ever consider acquiring that line way back to have a longer excursion route the other way out of Flemington? They could have run Flemington-Neshanic and back. I'm confused about the tourist train operation, is the BRRHT seperate from the BR&W, did the BR&W once operate the excursion trains themselves but the BRRHT was formed and now operates the trains for BR&W? When did #60 steam last? Was it 10 years ago?

Let's see, the BR&W timetable lists Three Bridges at MP 15.5, and the NS connection at MP 16.2 and that's measured from Lambertville. Ringoes is at MP 6.9.

The Railroad Days excursion mixed train photo freight tentatively scheduled for Friday, June 19, 2009 will likely run Ringoes to Three Bridges, maybe with 60. A limited number of tickets wil be sold and the fare includes lunch somewhere out on the line. The CNJ track is long gone past Three Bridges. I suspect the lack of freight customers on the now abandoned trackage dictated what was purchased. Too expensive to maintain track for passenger service, witness Ringoes to Lambertville as an example. A lot of potential passengers ask how long the round trip is, and decide to ride when then find out it is about an hour and 1/4, longer appears to be less attractive to many, though some would certainly like longer excursions.

The BRRHT was formed a couple years ago as a 501(c)(3) organization to take over operation of the passenger trains from the BR&W. BR&W still owns the passenger cars and locomotives. The BRRHT may be leasing the passenger equipment in the near future to increase the potential for donations and grants for restoration, etc. I believe 60 has been out of service about 8 years or so.

Ken W2KB wrote:

rwk wrote:I'm curious, what is the mileage from Three Bridges to Lambertville? Are there any special trips that ever run to Three Bridges? It would be nice to have a special excursion from Flemington to Ringoes, then to Three Bridges and back to Flemington with #60. Is the ex-CNJ track gone past Three Bridges through Neshanic Station to Somerville? Why didn't BR&W ever consider acquiring that line way back to have a longer excursion route the other way out of Flemington? They could have run Flemington-Neshanic and back. I'm confused about the tourist train operation, is the BRRHT seperate from the BR&W, did the BR&W once operate the excursion trains themselves but the BRRHT was formed and now operates the trains for BR&W? When did #60 steam last? Was it 10 years ago?

The Railroad Days excursion mixed train photo freight tentatively scheduled for Friday, June 19, 2009 will likely run Ringoes to Three Bridges, maybe with 60. A limited number of tickets wil be sold and the fare includes lunch somewhere out on the line. The CNJ track is long gone past Three Bridges. I suspect the lack of freight customers on the now abandoned trackage dictated what was purchased. Too expensive to maintain track for passenger service, witness Ringoes to Lambertville as an example. A lot of potential passengers ask how long the round trip is, and decide to ride when then find out it is about an hour and 1/4, longer appears to be less attractive to many, though some would certainly like longer excursions.

Same reason The BR&W turned down the Bel-Del From Lambertville to Trenton. ConRail offered the BR&W the line, but the upkeep and lack of freight traffic killed the deal.

#60 last ran during the 2000 season. As the Winter turns toward Spring look for more info on her return to service.

JimBoylan wrote:

rwk wrote:Is the ex-CNJ track gone past Three Bridges through Neshanic Station to Somerville? Why didn't BR&W ever consider acquiring that line way back to have a longer excursion route the other way out of Flemington? They could have run Flemington-Neshanic and back.

Probably same reason the CNJ stopped using the line before ConRail, the weak railroad bridge at Three Bridges. BR&W did acquire to the Hunterdon County line, but no more into Somerset County.

I don't believe it was the bridge at Three Bridges that landlocked the CNJ. Accounts from old-timers at BR&W stated it was a bridge east of Three Bridges (possibly located in Neshanic) that severed the CNJ South Branch. During the last days of CNJ and PC operations, whatever landlocked CNJ engine was assigned to the line, was sent to Lambertville and then north to make its trek to the shops.

NJT inspected the bridge at Three Bridges (as well as BR&W's other structures) for the NJT shopper's/M&E private varnish trips that ran somewhere in the late 80's after Flemington was originally chosen as the intended home for the State's Transportation Museum. NJT approved the operation of their equipment into Flemington from Three Bridges, as long as no U34C's were assigned to the train.