Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

There are three versions of the August 2022 cafe menu:

Corridor
National
Acela

Vincent wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:36 am Covid-19 has forced the restaurant industry and catering companies to re-think their service plans. There are many more "to-go" and wholesale options available from restaurants. Caterers have also evolved their offerings and operations to make food service safer and more efficient. There are plenty of opportunities for Amtrak to offer better food.

Every major city has numerous catering firms that will provide catering services ranging from elegant sit-down dinners, corporate lunches and events, or small private parties. It shouldn't be hard for Amtrak to find healthy and tasty food options for train passengers. Amtrak needs to set a price point and negotiate the contracts.

The challenge for Amtrak might be coordinating the catering on a nationwide basis. The sandwiches available along the NEC won't be the same that are available along the west coast. That might be a problem if Amtrak can't delegate responsibility for menu selections to regional managers. If Amtrak demands the same products in every market or makes the contracting process too difficult, caterers will tell Amtrak to take a hike and concentrate on catering the next local corporate event.

Catering for a group with advance notice is different than catering an Amtrak train, so any negotiations for any generic catering group is not going to happen. Not only that, Amtrak has more equipment available than what a caterer expects, for a lot less room. Caterers are precooking everything to a point, throwing them into "hot boxes" that get chilled until before the event, then turned into mobile ovens on caster wheels to cook them the rest of the way. They provide everything dining related. I'll point you to The Splendid Table's Epicor 691 on caterers for more info on that.

For Amtrak and a similar style, you need to look at the airline food industry. Gate Gourmet and such. Prepackaged meals that can be microwaved. A selection of meals that are heat-and-serve. We discussed this before on this very thread. Amtrak has similar, called Flex Dining.

The thing we're comparing here now with the article is the Cafe car and it's "7-Eleven-eque" fare, and I have to remind folks here: It's a "meal" to get you over a 4+ hour trip, that can be easily microwaved and is small enough to store inside the Cafe car's confines (And yes, I know of one 7-Eleven that's about the same floor layout size as a Cafe car). It's not the Long Distance kitchen. It's not Flex Dining. It's something to eat because you were in a rush to make the train or you're stuck in it because you're going from DC to Boston... and Amtrak needs to rework the Cafe car to do any major changes.

I hope the new ICT sets have half the Cafe car reserved for the actual Cafe.

Dec 2022 issue of Trains came in email recently, and it has an article on Amtrak's issues and how they're trying to fix them. On the section of food (the article quotes current Amtrak President Roger Harris):

Having sufficient crews in the right places is what drove the decision to cancel the Silver Meteor, which Harris says together with the Silver Star will be the first recipients of food service upgrades among single-level eastern trains. Through September, enhancements had been limited to cafe-car menus.

“At the moment, we’re trying to see how we can improve onboard dining without going to all that cost by [incorporating] certain elements of what’s worked in the West — staying with [New York-Florida] Silver Service, at least initially,” he says. “These are high-volume trains with long hours, as long as the Coast Starlight.”

Referencing the experiment in which Starlight business-class passengers had the opportunity to purchase dining-car meals, he says, “We initially had a decent take rate, but ran into this employee [availability] restraint. So we are waiting until we restore the Meteor, re-split the trains, and think through how to improve the service overall. After that, we will be looking at the other eastern trains and those that don’t offer traditional dining in the West” [the City of New Orleans and Texas Eagle].

“Individual portion preparation with the current [flexible] dining isn’t the most cost-effective way to do it,” he says. “So we are looking to rebalance this equation with food cost and labor, with an eye to how to make the product better. And if there is capacity to serve it to coach passengers, then that’s what we want to do.”

I went to the RPA meeting in Kansas City this weekend and this was also indicated by the Amtrak rep they are returning traditional dining to the Silver Meteor and Silver Star.

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:39 am I went to the RPA meeting in Kansas City this weekend and this was also indicated by the Amtrak rep they are returning traditional dining to the Silver Meteor and Silver Star.

For sleeper pax only? I like the look of the new Viewliner diners but they are just too small to do the job. Only 42 seats and not sure how many the crew is going to take up with their personal stuff and setups. Someone needs to work on this first.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:01 am

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:39 am I went to the RPA meeting in Kansas City this weekend and this was also indicated by the Amtrak rep they are returning traditional dining to the Silver Meteor and Silver Star.

For sleeper pax only? I like the look of the new Viewliner diners but they are just too small to do the job. Only 42 seats and not sure how many the crew is going to take up with their personal stuff and setups. Someone needs to work on this first.

How many seats did the prior generation have?

markhb wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:49 am

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:01 am

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:39 am I went to the RPA meeting in Kansas City this weekend and this was also indicated by the Amtrak rep they are returning traditional dining to the Silver Meteor and Silver Star.

For sleeper pax only? I like the look of the new Viewliner diners but they are just too small to do the job. Only 42 seats and not sure how many the crew is going to take up with their personal stuff and setups. Someone needs to work on this first.

How many seats did the prior generation have?

Most were 48. So figure about 18 more customers for three sittings per night.

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:48 am
Most were 48. So figure about 18 more customers for three sittings per night.

Uhhh, NO.

The standard dining car, pre Amtrak, was 36 seats. Some roads, such as UP, were exceptions at 48.

In addition, many railroads had food service for the coaches independent of the dining car…more economical, but still cooked on board meals.

Let me be blunt: Amtrak does not want to resource food service.

36? You kind of lost me there. I don't think I ever sat in a 36 seat dining car on Amtrak. Even the Viewliner diner was designed as a 48 seat car - 12 tables of 4.



Here is some info on older Amtrak dining cars which of course came from other railroads:

https://history.amtrak.com/archives/dining-car-1970s

https://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/a-closer-look

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:01 am

lordsigma12345 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:39 am I went to the RPA meeting in Kansas City this weekend and this was also indicated by the Amtrak rep they are returning traditional dining to the Silver Meteor and Silver Star.

For sleeper pax only? I like the look of the new Viewliner diners but they are just too small to do the job. Only 42 seats and not sure how many the crew is going to take up with their personal stuff and setups. Someone needs to work on this first.

Don't crews have their own sleeper cars?

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:01 amOnly 42 seats and not sure how many the crew is going to take up with their personal stuff and setups. Someone needs to work on this first.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:53 pmDon't crews have their own sleeper cars?

He means the train crew, conductors and ticket collectors, who do not sleep on the train. The On Board Services crew, Diner, Sleeper, Cafe, and Coach attendants, usually stay with and sleep on the train for most of the trip. In either case, the employees need room to spread out themselves and their possessions, to show that they are superior to the paying passengers. The rare Conductor's office or desk is just too small and private.

Yes. When we have taken the Silvers in the past the first two tables were being used by the crew removing eight "revenue" seats for passengers. One table was used for personal items like coats, pocketbooks, bags, etc., and the other for setups for the tables. I don't remember where I saw it, but I do remember riding a diner where there were cubby holes in the seat backs between tables to hold such setups. I thought that was a clever solution.

Getting back to food, an article hit in The Points Guy, and normally the author wouldn't review the food... but given how the experience was, adding the review was interesting. The review in total was about the Acela First Class service between NYC and Boston.

In short...

Boston lounge: Not good.
Lunch Boston to NYC: Salad was not good, cheese platter better.
NYC lounge: Much better.
Breakfast NYC to Boston: The eggs were not good, below that of airline food.

Oh...kay...

Yeah, hard to understand why anyone would upgrade to first on Acela on their own dime.

Because the Cafe car food is so much worse!