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Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #820591  by right-of-way
 
I took a recent trip from Downingtown to 30th Street. Here are my general observations:

[*] Amtrak crews were installing new train detection devices between the rails of each track at the Narberth signal tower (yellow color, looked like what you see on the NEC)
[*] There was a lot of brush cutting and tree trimming along the right-of-way from Paoli to Overbrook and a new cable(s) is being strung
[*] Lots of spray paint tie markings on the largely inactive 3rd track around Downingtown
[*] Interlockings painfully slow and antique, especially between Overbrook and Zoo
[*] Railroad's most beat up section is now between Thorndale and Paoli but at least there is CWR
[*] Catenary poles between Villanova and Paoli look like they are about to turn into dust
[*] New tracks and concrete ties in SEPTA territory are being maintained to FRA class IV standards at best (lots of ballast in need of tampering)
[*] Too many stations with low-level platforms and pitiful dwell times (this in turn drives operating costs through the roof since larger crews are needed for safety reasons, particularly on the SEPTA side)
[*] Overall, the railroad is in a much better shape then it was in the 1990's and 1980's and they seemed to have tapped into a growing NYC area market. However, they still have a long way to go until it is brought up to NEC standards.

Funding:

SEPTA's capital program has been set back from HIGH to LOW since the turnpike deal was vetoed again by the feds. Amtrak is applying for the next round of high speed rail funds for this corridor and the required environmental work is coming to a close. I expect Amtrak to receive some decent funding for this corridor and complete most if not all the projects covered in the environmental assessment.

125 mph Operations:

The grade separations in Lancaster County will speed things up on the west end. However, the traction power system needs a boost and I believe the new Paoli substation would be a key piece of the puzzle. The catenary structures will support up to 125 mph operations (they're nearly identical to the ones in New Jersey or Maryland) but only if tracks are maintained to FRA Class VII standards, signaling is fully upgraded and traction power system upgrades are made to support both higher speeds and denser service. So 125 mph operations are within reach west of Paoli. My guess is by 2016 with the traction power system upgrades being the element that slows up the overall program.
 #821257  by right-of-way
 
There is another round of high speed rail funds from the Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act of 2007 (PRIIA). These funds are awarded sometime late this year and are separate from stimulus funds. I believe applications are due this summer. PennDOT/Amtrak invested in a pretty extensive Environmental Assessment (EA) for the corridor so they are eligible for this funding and any other federal funds that may pop up in the near future.
 #821323  by Gilbert B Norman
 
right-of-way wrote:There is another round of high speed rail funds from the Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act of 2007 (PRIIA)
Division B of the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008 vice as cited.

Seeing a chance to get PRIIA 08 enacted in the wake of deserved public outcry arising from Chatsworth, the backers of PRIIA simply attached it as Division B to RSIA '08. Even if the Bush administration was deemed to be "anti-Amtrak' (I don't think they were to the extent some advocates hold to be the case), simply signed the legislation knowing they would be out of office well before any provisions of such were to be implemented.
 #822775  by Lackawanna565
 
When I was going through some of my photos that I got on June 15th. I noticed something at Leaman Interlocking. The signals on the east side can't show Limited Clear on them. It looks like Amtrak is done working on them. Why don't the signals show that aspect?


Here is photo from the west side of the interlocking. http://www.flickr.com/photos/45977245@N ... 337558340/

The east side. http://www.flickr.com/photos/45977245@N05/4749353345/
 #822802  by Jersey_Mike
 
The distant signals at Irishtown Rd can only display an Approach Slow for diverging movements so the LEAMAN crossovers are clearly Slow speed. I would think that the lower | is either for a future interlocking involving the Paradise station, or due to a short block situation that requires an Approach Medium in advance of an Approach. It could also just be an error :P
 #822811  by Lackawanna565
 
Since you mentioned something about the Paradise station Mike. What's going on with that? I haven't heard anything in years.
 #822989  by twropr
 
Jersey_Mike wrote:The distant signals at Irishtown Rd can only display an Approach Slow for diverging movements so the LEAMAN crossovers are clearly Slow speed. I would think that the lower | is either for a future interlocking involving the Paradise station, or due to a short block situation that requires an Approach Medium in advance of an Approach. It could also just be an error :P
The little bit I was able to learn from PENNDOT is that the "new" crossovers at Leaman are #10's.

Andy
 #823182  by Lackawanna565
 
Are the switches at Atglen good for 80mph? After I read that Amtrak kept Leaman the same speed since the PRR days. I hope the new interlocking at Atglen is good for higher speeds. Amtrak should rebuild Leaman with at least #20 crossovers. Also, what are the speeds through Rheems and Roy crossovers?
 #823648  by Lackawanna565
 
I know there are plans to put in a third track from Paoli to Atglen. Does SEPTA have any plans to run to Lancaster? If they do. They should extend it to Lancaster and if they ever get Corridor One running. They should put it in all the way to Harrisburg. But with all the work they did already on the Lancaster to Harrisburg portion of the line. They probably won't do it. Also, I found a website with a list of projects they are doing several months ago. Now I can't find it. If someone finds it can you email it to me?

Thanks

Never mind about the page. Found it about an hour after I put this post on.
Last edited by Lackawanna565 on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 #823698  by jp1822
 
right-of-way wrote:I took a recent trip from Downingtown to 30th Street. Here are my general observations:

[*] Amtrak crews were installing new train detection devices between the rails of each track at the Narberth signal tower (yellow color, looked like what you see on the NEC)
[*] There was a lot of brush cutting and tree trimming along the right-of-way from Paoli to Overbrook and a new cable(s) is being strung
[*] Lots of spray paint tie markings on the largely inactive 3rd track around Downingtown
[*] Interlockings painfully slow and antique, especially between Overbrook and Zoo
[*] Railroad's most beat up section is now between Thorndale and Paoli but at least there is CWR
[*] Catenary poles between Villanova and Paoli look like they are about to turn into dust
[*] New tracks and concrete ties in SEPTA territory are being maintained to FRA class IV standards at best (lots of ballast in need of tampering)
[*] Too many stations with low-level platforms and pitiful dwell times (this in turn drives operating costs through the roof since larger crews are needed for safety reasons, particularly on the SEPTA side)
[*] Overall, the railroad is in a much better shape then it was in the 1990's and 1980's and they seemed to have tapped into a growing NYC area market. However, they still have a long way to go until it is brought up to NEC standards.

125 mph Operations:

The grade separations in Lancaster County will speed things up on the west end. However, the traction power system needs a boost and I believe the new Paoli substation would be a key piece of the puzzle. The catenary structures will support up to 125 mph operations (they're nearly identical to the ones in New Jersey or Maryland) but only if tracks are maintained to FRA Class VII standards, signaling is fully upgraded and traction power system upgrades are made to support both higher speeds and denser service. So 125 mph operations are within reach west of Paoli. My guess is by 2016 with the traction power system upgrades being the element that slows up the overall program.
Amtrak needs to get the Keystone Corridor completely "in line" with the NEC operations in terms of infrastructure. Ensuring it's return to all-electric train service was a huge benefit and total upgrade of the line from the 1980s and 1990s when it entered into its low point.

Now it's time to finish the project off - to get the remaining grade crossings eliminated, and work done to create high-level platforms. The later is a must for highspeed train service. Dwell time can certainly be reduced with high level platforms AND more efficient "change of head-end and crews" at Philly.

I also think PennDOT needs to be ready to accept the Acela Express train sets in the future for the Keysone line - when these trainsets are finally retired. The "push-pull" service would work out great with an Acela Express train set as their is a power car on each end. However, the high level platforms need to be put in place. It seems natural for high speed train sets of the NEC - once they are retired from the NEC - to get shunted off to the Keystone Corridor. Course if that is the case, Amtrak and PennDOT would have to figure out what to do with the cafe and first class car - convert fully into coach service or actually "upgrade" the line to include a cafe/meal service of some sort. The later would be my choice for the Keystone service, especially since there are a lot of business travellers using the Keystones between NYP and Philly alone - and on out to Ardmore and Lancaster etc.

Furthermore, Amtrak should be looking into eventually running Keystone trains not only to NYC but also to Washington DC. and Suburban Station in Center City Philly. I'd also like to see the Keystones come back and serve Princeton Junction, as I think there is a market here willing to pay the Amtrak Monthly Pass cost - let alone grab something to eat before getting home after the family may have already eaten (if there is even a family to go home to).

More Keystones during the a.m. and p.m. peak hour to NYP could certainly help Amtrak - and likely take away some business for NJT. However - that's just too bad. And with the extra stop at Princeton Junction, hopefully offset with time savings at Philly, this should make for a FULL train. Consider even now that not all Keystone trains stop at Trenton - but thy should!

SEPTA to Lancaster and the Corridor One project I think should be dropped and the money better utilized elsewhere. I really wish PennDOT would consider a north-south train from say Baltimore to Harrisburg and on up to Buffalo (i.e. a reincarnation of the Buffalo Day Express). Their is at least an intermediate market out of Harrisburg I think. I could be wrong, but I think a market may exist for such a service.

The station stop at Paradise - with the Strausburg RR and within the hearland of the Amish community - appears to be at a standstill even though such a stop would certainly benefit the tourist and local area. I think the former would definitely have the upper hand. Likewise, a station stop at Harrisburg International Airport appears to be stalled. Consider also Middletown train station, which was planned to be eliminated with an Airport stop, is a low level platform - and on a curve - while the airport station would be high level I am sure.

Hopefully Amtrak will continue its progress on the Keystone line with the current AEM7's and Amfleets. Whether upgraded service comes via a cafe car or Surburban Station Stop in Center Philly (for trains originating in Philly) remains to be seen - as well the Paradise and Harrisburg Airport Station Stop. I also view the Keystones as fulfilling the role of the retired Clockers between NYP and Philly, as much as NJT and Amtrak may not want this. I think Amtrak should flow with such progress and look for that extra AM and PM peak rush hour Keystone train.
 #823796  by Nasadowsk
 
jp1822 wrote: Amtrak needs to get the Keystone Corridor completely "in line" with the NEC operations in terms of infrastructure.
Yes.
Now it's time to finish the project off - to get the remaining grade crossings eliminated, and work done to create high-level platforms. The later is a must for highspeed train service.
Yes.
Dwell time can certainly be reduced with high level platforms AND more efficient "change of head-end and crews" at Philly.
Better idea: re-activate the NY Pittsburgh subway. Combined with below, there's ZERO reason why NY - HBG trains need to stop at Philly, period. NY - Philly is covered by Regionals, DC to HBG could cover Philly - HBG.
I also think PennDOT needs to be ready to accept the Acela Express train sets in the future for the Keysone line - when these trainsets are finally retired. The "push-pull" service would work out great with an Acela Express train set as their is a power car on each end. However, the high level platforms need to be put in place. It seems natural for high speed train sets of the NEC - once they are retired from the NEC - to get shunted off to the Keystone Corridor. Course if that is the case, Amtrak and PennDOT would have to figure out what to do with the cafe and first class car - convert fully into coach service or actually "upgrade" the line to include a cafe/meal service of some sort. The later would be my choice for the Keystone service, especially since there are a lot of business travellers using the Keystones between NYP and Philly alone - and on out to Ardmore and Lancaster etc.
The acelas will naturally get kicked there. But the better answer is to replace the Acela and the regional and keystone fleets with a modern, tilting EMU (though that'd mean a political limitation to 125mph), with 9 inch unbalance through curves a contractual requirement for payment (to avoid the cluster that Acela's been)
Furthermore, Amtrak should be looking into eventually running Keystone trains not only to NYC but also to Washington DC. and Suburban Station in Center City Philly.
DC and the Airport, IMHO. Suburban's a waste as a stop for an intercity train - that's why SEPTA exists. With an airport stop at HBG, this could give Philly a very useful 2nd airport. With high enough speeds, Harrisburg's airport could be competitive even with the NY ones...
I'd also like to see the Keystones come back and serve Princeton Junction, as I think there is a market here willing to pay the Amtrak Monthly Pass cost - let alone grab something to eat before getting home after the family may have already eaten (if there is even a family to go home to).
Trenton's a few miles south. Fix NJT so it isn't so ^%#&#% slow between the two and learn how to schedule a railroad for connections. Stop adding trip time for 2 or 3 riders...
 #824039  by jp1822
 
Princeton Junction was a HUGE stop (perhaps more passengers boarding here than in Trenton) when the Clockers were in service! Same for the Keystones, which essentially backed up the Clockers. With NJT at a crawl with its schedules - often - and Amtrak offering more comfortable seating, I could see a resurgance of "monthly pass holders" for Keystone trains at Princeton Junction, just like at Trenton, IF the Keystones once again stopped at Princeton Junction - like they used to.
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