Visiting New York from UK help best freight places

Hi everyone,

This is my first visit to the US and is with work but i get 3 days to myself from 8th Feb 2010 to 10th Feb 2010 to do what i like and the main thing i enjoy doing is railfanning, been doing it in the UK for about 16 years.

As you can understand i have been trying to find the best places to go which shows me as many of the US freight operators as possible - all my journeys have to be by public transport (shocked me how long some of the journeys are on Amtrak).

This is my plan and i am hoping someone can help me and guide me to any better places to go and take pictures of the trains (I have been looking at lots of rail website guides but nearly all of them are based on the car):

Monday - spend time around Hudson river area and visit some model shops etc - In the UK Monday's are usually quiet for freight is that the same in the US?
Tuesday - travel to Baltimore and go to the Baltimore & Ohio Museum, stuck on any good places to see freight.
Wednesday - Go to Syracuse or Amsterdam for the day not sure which one yet - what does anyone recommend?

The above days are not set and i am completely open to suggestions other than i start Monday morning at New York Penn station and Wednesday evening need to be back there around 20:00.

Thank you everyone for any help with the above and moderators if this is in the wrong section please move.

Cheers,
Darron

As far as your choice of Amsterdam vs Syracuse. I highly recommend Syracuse. Amsterdam is meerly a small depot along the mains. Syracuse has a clean, modern transportation center with restrooms, food vendors, gift shop, access to public transportation, and taxi's around the city and area. Located next to the Junction with The St.Lawrence Sub., and the Montreal bd Q621 usually heads North in the morning. Traffic varies throughout the day, with Container/Van trains running heavy during morning and midday hours, locals and freights at various times, and every Amtrak train stops at Syracuse. Dewitt yard by East Syracuse is a modest sized freight facility and can be very busy at times.

You don't say where you are staying for the three days, if it is in the New York City area and no car, most of you one day
upstate will be on Amtrak if you go all the way to Syracuse. Amsterdam also has a facility with rest rooms and a care taker.
There is no Amtrak agent there and you are basically west of the city. I agree that Syracuse is probably a pleasanter place
IF you have lots of time but if you are using the train, you will not have very much time in Syracuse because most of your
time will be on the train.
Poughkeepsie would be a good one day trip out of New York by train. Metro-North has very good service, the station is
decent there and the big plus, you can walk across the Hudson River on the old Poughkeepsie Railroad Bridge. The River
Subdivision on the west side of the river across from Poughkeepsie is much busier than the Hudson Line through
Poughkeepsie is for freight operations but the walk over the bridge is a scenic highlight of any trip in that area. It is 120
years old, over a mile in length and 212 feet above the water. You will cross both railroads while walking this bridge.
In the afternoon the day I walked this bridge this past November I saw 7 trains on the River Line in a little over two hours
and I thought that was pretty good. This will not be a good option if the weather is bad so check the weather first.
Syracuse is an excellent choice if you are staying overnight but I am not sure if there are any accomodations in the area
around the station.
If you are only going for the day but want a decent ride, I might suggest getting off at Utica instead of Syracuse. The
station in Utica is beautifully restored and is a classic old New York Central station. The last I knew there was a restaurant
in the station and if not, there should be food not too far away. The platforms are open and there may even be a newstand
with some railroad stuff in there but here I am talking a long time ago.
Whatever you decide to do, enjoy your travels.
Noel Weaver

roadster wrote:As far as your choice of Amsterdam vs Syracuse. I highly recommend Syracuse. Amsterdam is meerly a small depot along the mains. Syracuse has a clean, modern transportation center with restrooms, food vendors, gift shop, access to public transportation, and taxi's around the city and area. Located next to the Junction with The St.Lawrence Sub., and the Montreal bd Q621 usually heads North in the morning. Traffic varies throughout the day, with Container/Van trains running heavy during morning and midday hours, locals and freights at various times, and every Amtrak train stops at Syracuse. Dewitt yard by East Syracuse is a modest sized freight facility and can be very busy at times.

Another advantage- the Amtrak depot in Syracuse is on the south side of the tracks, so our friend from the UK woudn't have to worry about photographing while facing into the sun. Amerstam's depot is on the north side of the tracks.

dazza20 wrote:This is my first visit to the US

Welcome!

As you can understand i have been trying to find the best places to go which shows me as many of the US freight operators as possible - all my journeys have to be by public transport (shocked me how long some of the journeys are on Amtrak).

This might prove to be difficult for several reasons. While there is a good amount of freight traffic in this region, it tends to run early in the day and late in the evening. There are two main routes that run on either shore of the Hudson River. The east shore carries the Hudson Line, home to Amtrak and Metro-North passenger services. There is some freight traffic from CSX, but it consists of one or two wayfreights that tend to run in darkness. Same goes for the local freight. All of the freight action is on the west shore (River Line), but it is difficult to access by public transportation, and the freight trains do not run on schedule.

If you do decide to take a train ride up to Syracuse, you are more likely to see more freights from your seat during the course of your travels. What's more, you will be treated to the spectacular scenery along the Hudson and Mohawk Rivers. Amsterdam is great for interesting photos, but Syrcause has a better facility as far as stations go (with more ammenities, as described above).

Monday - spend time around Hudson river area and visit some model shops etc - In the UK Monday's are usually quiet for freight is that the same in the US?

We call them "hobby shops" here, and unfortunately some of the more well known ones in New York City have closed. There are two great shops that are well stocked and worth the trip, but they are a little ways from New York City. Willis Hobbies in Mineola, New York (on Long Island - 15 minute walk from East Williston station) and The Model Railroad Shop in Dunellen, New Jersey (15 minute walk from Dunellen station). A visit to either of these shops would also include an interesting train ride. East Williston is a 40 minute train ride from New York Penn Station, Dunellen is a 45 minute ride from Penn Station.

Tuesday - travel to Baltimore and go to the Baltimore & Ohio Museum, stuck on any good places to see freight.

You'll enjoy yourself at the B&O Museum, but I dont know if there are any areas down there that are accessible by public transit where you can see freight.

Wednesday - Go to Syracuse or Amsterdam for the day not sure which one yet - what does anyone recommend?

Syracuse.

While you are in New York, make sure you visit Grand Central Terminal.

If you take a ride on the PATH (Port Authority Trans Hudson) rapid transit line from 33rd Street/6th Avenue in New York City, you can take it down to Hoboken (New Jersey), and then transfer to a train that runs from Hoboken to Journal Square. The part approaching Journal Square is all above ground, high speed running, and runs right through CSX' Kearny freight yards. I know it's probably not quite what you had in mind, but literally the PATH train runs right through the terminal, and you'll see all sorts of freight.

Unfortunately, in this country, we've done a pretty good job of booting freight off the passenger networks. This is especially true in the New York metro area. Hope this helps. Email me or PM me if you want some more details.

-otto-

Thank you everyone for your great replies. This helps hugely - the hotel front i have not decided yet as i might look at staying somewhere if i can get a good selection of freight action.

I am thinking Syracuse is the place to go and i might see if there is a hotel or something nearby. Correct me if i am wrong but the companies i would see at Syracuse are:

CSX, Amtrak and the possiblity of Union Pacific - according to railfanning videos on Youtube.

Poughkeepsie sounds a good option, liking the sound of the bridge i will look into this - what companies through here presume CSX, Metro and Amtrak.

Out of curiosity what is the busiest place for freight in this region? and is there anywhere to see varied companies like NS, CSX, Union pacific, CP etc at one place - stab in the dark as they say.

Once again thank you for all your help , time to look at the maps, Amtrak website and hotel booking sites.

If anyone wants to know anything regarding the UK railways please just give me a shout.

Cheers,
Darron

dazza20 wrote:Hi everyone,
Wednesday - Go to Syracuse or Amsterdam for the day not sure which one yet - what does anyone recommend?
Darron

While everyone said "Syracuse", I agree with them.

If you are staying overnight at NYC and u are expecting to go back to NYC that evening. You would have to leave Syracuse at about 3 or 4 pm on Mapleleaf #64. It is the LAST Eastbound amtrak for the day. So expect to spend overnight at Syracuse. It is not a daylight trip for you. The First Westbound arrive at syracuse at 12 40 pm. That's less than 3 hours for you. Clearly it is wed-thrs for you.

Same thing for Baltimore. you would be pressure for time. I am sure you can get to Baltimore on Acela in early morning and back to NYC at night. but you cant walk leisurely in B+O and expect to railfanning during daylight at ease. you'll be hustling... I dont know if you can find much frieght train in Baltimore anyway. You would need to research on that.

have you thought of looking for british people who are living in NYS? maybe getting in touch with them to see if they could help you with transportation? That way you can max your railfanning to fullest possible. I am sure there is a forum or blog by british people in USA...

You might want to change your plans. If you can find someone, who live along Hudson line (Hudson station or Troy station would be better), can give u ride and tour at Selkirk and albany area, that would be your best plan to see many trains.

dazza20 wrote:I am thinking Syracuse is the place to go and i might see if there is a hotel or something nearby. Correct me if i am wrong but the companies i would see at Syracuse are: CSX, Amtrak and the possiblity of Union Pacific - according to railfanning videos on Youtube.

The tracks that run through Syracuse are owned by CSX, so you'll see their freight trains run through. They host Amtrak trains, too. You could see trains that have locomotives from other companies like BNSF and UP due to power-sharing ("pool") agreements. There is one produce train that runs from the west coast to a warehouse near Albany that usually has UP power on it, which is probably what you saw on YouTube.

Poughkeepsie sounds a good option, liking the sound of the bridge i will look into this - what companies through here presume CSX, Metro and Amtrak.

You will definitely see Metro-North and Amtrak at Poughkeepsie, the CSX moves are rare on the Hudson Line. You will be able to see CSX trains rolling on the other side of the Hudson River, however. I'd say spending a good part of the day up on the Poughkeepsie Bridge walkway will not only give you spectacular scenic views, but you'll also be able to see trains on both sides of the Hudson. If you decide on a trip to Poughkeepsie, make sure you take Metro-North Hudson Line from Grand Central, it's cheaper than taking Amtrak from Penn Station.

Out of curiosity what is the busiest place for freight in this region? and is there anywhere to see varied companies like NS, CSX, Union pacific, CP etc at one place - stab in the dark as they say.

Newark, New Jersey - Oak Island Yard, Croxton Yard, and other locations around the metro area. All of these yards are in no-so-nice areas, off-limits to the public, and are relatively difficult to navigate. Which is why you never see any "Railfan Guides to Newark" or "Railfan Guides to New York City." Union Pacific owns no tracks in the East, though you might see trains using their locomotives.

Darron, I know you're focusing on freight, but in the New York metro area, we have some pretty spectacular passenger operations and terminals. Newark Penn Station, Newark Broad Street, Hoboken Terminal, Grand Central Terminal are all worth a visit, and easily interconnected by public transit.

-otto-

By the way, Noel's suggestion of Utica instead of Syracuse is not bad, either. The station in Utica is built like a Roman bath, plus you'll see the same action in Utica that you will in Syracuse. You might also see the Alco-powered Mohawk, Adirondack & Northern or even an equipment move for the Adirondack Scenic Railway. Also, the shops for the New York, Susquehanna & Western are located at Utica, but they are not open to the public.



-otto-

Thank you to all of you for your great replies and sharing your detailed knowledge - this makes these forums the best source of information for people like me who know nothing.

I thought i would let you all know what i have decided with my short trip in New York after listening to all your great advice:

Sunday staying in New York doing touristy things and check out Grand Central, see the commuter trains etc.
Monday travel to Syracuse on the 281 Empire Service (looked at travelling to Utica as the station looks amazing, but it is the same cost as going all the way to Syracuse) staying the night in Syracuse at a place called Quality Inn.
Tuesday leave Syracuse on the 64 Maple Leaf service back to New York - this should give a taste of action at Syracuse seeing the Monday afternoon and Tuesday morning action.
Wednesday travel to Baltimore and go to the Museum cant come all the way here and not see some of the old engines, also the amazing roundhouse.
Then sadly back to work

Hopefully i will have many more trips over here due to work and i can start seeing all the other great places people have said. One day i do hope to have a holiday to Chicago seen so many train videos of Joliet

Once again i would like to thank you all.

Cheers,
Darron

When you go to Syracuse, be sure to nab a seat on the river side of the train (left side up, right side back). Its a much better view, and you can usually catch a few freight trains going up and down the river line, which is directly across the Hudson from where your train will be.

A few suggestions for your trip.
If you are flying into JFK and staying in Manhattan and you don't have too much luggage, take the AirTrain from the airport to Jamaica where you transfer to the Long Island Railroad for a short trip to New York Penn Station. It's cheaper than taking a taxi and quicker too. Sit on the right so you get a good view of Sunnyside Yard.
For your day in New York, try to get over to the West Side to see the former New York Central High Line which has recently been converted to a park. A great walk even in the winter.
Don't be afraid to take the Subway. It's the best way to get around New York. Enjoy your trip!

RRChef wrote:Don't be afraid to take the Subway. It's the best way to get around New York. Enjoy your trip!

Stick to the "numbered" lines whenever you can.

dazza20 wrote:Sunday staying in New York doing touristy things and check out Grand Central, see the commuter trains etc.
Monday travel to Syracuse on the 281 Empire Service (looked at travelling to Utica as the station looks amazing, but it is the same cost as going all the way to Syracuse) staying the night in Syracuse at a place called Quality Inn.
Tuesday leave Syracuse on the 64 Maple Leaf service back to New York - this should give a taste of action at Syracuse seeing the Monday afternoon and Tuesday morning action.
Wednesday travel to Baltimore and go to the Museum cant come all the way here and not see some of the old engines, also the amazing roundhouse.

That's sounds better plan. For me I would go to B+O museum on Monday. Then on Tues, I would head out to Syracuse. Tues-Wed would get u to see more trains than on Monday-Tues. Sunday and Monday is the lowest volume of traffic.

Too bad that your visit is during Feb. If it was another weekend. I would had come and take u around. It's hockey season so i'm very busy...

good luck and enjoy your visit! let us know how your trip turn out...

A few tips for "railfanning out the window" as you're aboard Amtrak:

At Penn Station in NYC, almost all Empire Service Trains leave from tracks 5, 6, or 7 because of the layout of the switches leading from the northeast corridor to the West Side connector. Using that info allows you to be near the front of the line when the train is announced for boarding. Boarding can be a cattle call, and you'll maximize your chances of a window seat this way.

As noted, you want to be on the river side of the train i.e. the left side) leaving New York. In the morning, you have a pretty good chance of seeing some CSX freights across the river. Their tracks are right on the river front for maybe 40 miles or so, until a little bit above Poughkeepsie.

The enormous bridge just north of the Poughkeepsie station is a former freight-only route into southern New England. Unused since 1973, it has recently been reopened as a pedestrian walkway. 200-p;lus feet above the river, the view from up there (including both RRs) is spectacular.

BTW, remember that you can catch your Amtrak train at Poughkeepsie instead of NY Penn. Youu could ride Metro North out of Grand Central on a very early train, see sunrise along the river, and board at Poughkeepsie.

Soem decent food available in Penn Station, particularly on the LIRR level, one level below Amtrak. On board food is a notch (or two, or three) less desirable. Excellent food court at Grand Central, lower level.

You should have a few minutes at Albany-Rensselaer to get off, walk around the platform and observe the facility. Nice new station. Very little freight traffic here, though, only a single mid day local two or three days a week.

You will join onto the freight main line about 10 miles west of Schenectady, milepost 169. From here to Syracuse will be double tracked, reasonably heavy freight traffic (40 per day, roughly).

The funny looking, silver colored "bridges to nowhere" along the Mohawk River between Schenectady and Utica are actually structures to lift and lower flood-control gates at the ocks on the adjacent Erie Canal. Navigation season is closed, so all the gates should be up. The Mohawk west of Schenectady is famous for its ice jams in late winter.

In Baltimore, the B&O museum is indeed worth a visit, one of the finest collections of early RR equipment anywhere. It is, however, in the middle of nowhere, so figure on a taxi ride from Baltimore Penn Station, where you'll be coming in.

Sounds like your itinerary is all set, but in response to your earlier question about heaviest freight activity, the basic thing to keep in mind is that the city of NY generates almost no freight traffic at all. Most of the traffic originates and terminates in New Jersey, west of the Hudson River. Some notable high traffic hot spots, maybe not for this visit, but a future one, perhaps:

Bound Brook, NJ ( A New Jersey transit station that is also on NS' major freight route in and out of the NYC area)

Selkirk, NY (CSX' major classification yard for the northeast, about 10 miles south of Albany. An automobile is a must-have for this one, though.)

Springfield, Mass. The Amtrak station here is also on the CSX main route into New England. Not super busy, but accessible by train and a reasonable chance of seeing some freight.

Lastly be aware that Syracuse and Utica are notorious for "lake effect snowstorms" due to the proximity to Lake Ontario. No major low pressure systems are necessary, all you need is a stiff northwest wind. That will produce clear, cold conditions everywhere else, but can make for very intense snow squalls in this part of central NY. They typically don't last more than a few hours, but fall rates of 1-2 inches per hour are fairly common.

Enjoy!