Thoughts on a new Florida train

Here is an on line source for the Royal Palm (audio enabled)

Let me see what I can do regarding the Flamingo

It's not going to happen, so, AFAIC, why even talk about it?

Amtrak can not even keep what they HAVE going (Palmetto) so what makes anyone think they want or could operate more???

Track capacity is not the issue; if it was, the Palmetto would not be operating at all

Richmond and Jacksonville are the bottleknecks; mainly Richmond.

This it is not because CSX is incompetant, it is because freight is at all time high levels

First, Mr. Nip, let's have it understood I speaketh only as a fellow Member.

Messrs. C&O and Panaigua clearly identified they are speaking only in a hypothetical environment. You and I both know it is an "aint a gonna happen"; I would dare say so do those two fellows.

What say we join the fun or simply stand aside?

Once again only speaking as a fellow Member.

Thanks for the link, Mr. Norman.

Looks like the Royal Palm took around 22 hours from Cincinnati to Jacksonville. So my proposed route wouldn't be any faster than a route through Washington - and might even be slower if a modern train couldn't meet the 1957 schedule, as is likely. I still like it as an alternate Chicago to Florida route, if Amtrak ever finds itself in a position to expand service. (A big "if," I know, but it doesn't hurt to talk about it, Mr. Nip. I said from the beginning that this was hypothetical)

Messrs Panaigua and C&O--

i have now reviewed my Aug 1964 Guide and find the SB Flamingo departed Cincy 6pm, arrived Atlanta 810A, and Jax 9PM or 26 hours.

Coach only at that time; no thanks even though in '64, I was only 23.

GBN

Sitting at my desk at work, no timetables around ,I am trying to reconsruct the schedules of the old Flamingo and Southland(L&N) and Royal Palm and Ponce de Leon(SOU) between CIn and JK and I come up with about 22-23-24 hours for most of them.

(I am a little late entering this discusison (or any other) as I have been out on medical leave. )

Ooops! As I read back, looks like the info I just provided had already been provided.....guess I had best concentrate on geting back to work and look at the forums later.. My apology for answering what had already been answered.


Do keep in mind that there ws a winter only streamliner called the New Royal Palm which went probably about 20 hrs. from Cin to Jack. It was a Detroit to Miami train and I am trying to remember its schedule. It made very very few stops, only Lexington Chattanooga, ATL and Macon,(between Cin and JK) as I remember. Quite a neat train.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: It has often been noted that the "lights burned late at 500 Water" over the decision whether the SCL would join Amtrak. Immediately prior to A-DAY, the SCL believed they had an out of pocket profit from running the Silvers and Champions. But they were concerned that Amtrak might break the connection at Wash or even Richmond in an efort to force SCL to join.

This is an interesting subject. Actually, Seaboard Coast Line would have
most likely not joined Amtrak had they been allowed to operate the through service between the northeast and Florida plus the Chicago train.
Unfortunately, they still had an extensive operation of local trains such as
The Everglades between Richmond and Jacksonville, Gulf Coast Special
between Richmond and Jacksonville both of which ran on the former A.C.L. via Charleston and the Palmland which ran between Richmond and
Columbia, S.C. via the former S.A.L.
They also had the Gulf Wind between Jacksonville and Chattahoochee
enroute to New Orleans running three days a week in each direction and
in conjunction with the L. & N.
The mail contracts were on the way out by this time and the railroad did
not want to continue the operation of these basically local trains.
Their only way out of this situation was to join up which they finally did.
Noel Weaver

i have now reviewed my Aug 1964 Guide and find the SB Flamingo departed Cincy 6pm, arrived Atlanta 810A, and Jax 9PM or 26 hours.

Coach only at that time; no thanks even though in '64, I was only 23.

That was during the real "Good Ole' Days of Rail Service then. Now i'ts nothing, with Amtrak having purged out the Floridian in 1980, its not the same.

And back in 1964, there were no sleepers for sure on that train??

That sounds about right about the Flamingo not having sleepers in 1964.(I am at my office, so don't hae any timetables here) For years it had a streamlined L&N sleeper from Cin to ATL, but nothing south of ATL. The "bigger player" on that L&N Knoxville route was the Southland, which went primarily to the west coast of FLordia but did have a through coach to JAX via the Dixie Flyer(swapped out in Atl) . But the Southland was dropped about 1957.

In fact the Flamingo coaches started just going Cincinnati to Albany, there a connection was made with the IC--CofG Seminole from Chicago(City of Miami route). You have to go back to the really early 50's and late 40's for the Flamingo to be a strong player .


On the Southern R.R. route, via Chattanooga, the Royal Palm was the bigger player, the Ponce de Leon the lesser during most of the years, esp. during the winter seasons.

I grew up in Chattanooga, am 60 years old, so I did grow up in the "good ole days".

Of course when Mr. Haithcoat and I started out, it would simply be a case of run over to the Travel Office and "take a peek at the Guide'.

Failing that, and since most travel offices today, if away from the Corridor even know what a passenger train is, are a blip on the screen, I'm compelled to break out the Guide and report.

My Aug 64 "workhorse' shows that the Royal Palm had a 10-6 Sleeper Cinci-Jax; the L&N Flamingo did not. However, the L&N offered a Sleeper Cinci-Atlanta via Nashville.

What were the schedules for the C&EI, L&N, FEC "Flagler and Flyers"?
I seem to remember that the C&EI via Evansville was a racetrack?

The C&EI ws a race track so far as the Dixie Flagler(to Miami), the Georgian(to Atlanta) and the Humming Bird(to New Orleans). They were the streamliners.

The Dixie Flyer and the Dixie Limited were slower trains, they had been king of the road before streamlining however.

Approx schedule for the Flagler , of course changed over the years but a "median" schedule would be lv. Chi 9 a.m. arrive Miami, next afternoon about 5 p.m.
Northbound, lv Miami about 12:30 p.m. and arrive CHI about 6 p.m the next night.

An approx. schedule for the Dixie Flyer would be lv CHI about 10p.m. arrivJAX SECOND morning about 6, get to Miami via connection about 4 p.m.

Nortbhound lv. Miami about the same as Flagler, lv. Jax about 9 p.m. arrive Chi SECOND morning about 5 a.m.