SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

How long before those outlying point kiosks get vandalized and become unusable? I remember
the rollout of those automated ticket machines in the 1980’s. Many were vandalized and eventually
removed and most of the ticket sales were done on the train.

Everyone:

1-For the first time - an actual good incentive to use the SEPTA Key: Free at all times within PA for
seniors eliminating the $1 fare and $8.50 ten ride tickets. How does SEPTA plan to collect additional
fare to Zone NJ and to Wilmington and Newark? From what I see there is no incentive for a senior
rider to tap in or out in NJ or DE instead relying on train crews to collect an added on board fare.

2-Take a look at the Pittsburgh area's Connect Card...The biggest difference that I noticed is that
unlimited weekly and monthly passes are offered - no dreaded "cap" limit to worry about - along
with the initial cost of only $1(!!!) to purchase one. PAT is similar to SEPTA in that single ride cash
fares have no transfers available - a CC must be used for transfer privileges.
http://www.connectcard.org/faqs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3-As AH notes above there has to be adequate security for any unattended TVMs to prevent not
only vandalism but to further prevent crimes such as skimming devices being placed on them to
steal bank account information...A few years ago the LIRR discovered that an organized ring of
thieves from eastern Europe was placing skimmers on credit/debit card TVM devices along with
a tiny camera to steal PIN numbers - a commuter discovered this when the camera fell off when
they went to use a card to purchase tickets. The MTA Police investigated and used an interesting
method to catch those responsible by disarming the skimmer and placing it back on the machine
staking out the TVMs until they came back to get their devices to make arrests. The MTA acted
quickly so customer confidence in the LIRR TVM system would not be further compromised.

Each TVM - and each tap reader on platforms - should have a distinct number so any problems
can be reported promptly. Example: The readers on the high-level platform at North Wales can
be identified - Northbound platform NWN1,2,3,4; Southbound platform NWS1,2,3,4 along with
a toll-free number to report TVM or card reader problems.

I will comment further on this subject in a subsequent post...MACTRAXX

amtrakhogger wrote:How long before those outlying point kiosks get vandalized and become unusable? I remember
the rollout of those automated ticket machines in the 1980’s. Many were vandalized and eventually
removed and most of the ticket sales were done on the train.

The River Line has TVMs at every stop and runs through rough areas of Camden and Trenton. Ive never read about it being a problem.

Its not the 80s anymore.

jamesinclair wrote:

amtrakhogger wrote:How long before those outlying point kiosks get vandalized and become unusable? I remember
the rollout of those automated ticket machines in the 1980’s. Many were vandalized and eventually
removed and most of the ticket sales were done on the train.

The River Line has TVMs at every stop and runs through rough areas of Camden and Trenton. Ive never read about it being a problem.

Its not the 80s anymore.

The BSL and MFL had token machines in every station for decades.

mohawkrailfan wrote:The BSL and MFL had token machines in every station for decades.

Not true. Many stations did not. 5th Street being one example, forcing riders to pay the sucker fare.

bikentransit wrote:

mohawkrailfan wrote:The BSL and MFL had token machines in every station for decades.

Not true. Many stations did not. 5th Street being one example, forcing riders to pay the sucker fare.

MR and BNT: SEPTA used to put out a detailed brochure showing all of their sales outlets that was
listed by city or town and zip code - that included the locations of token machines at BSL and MFSE
stations. As BNT mentions there were stations that had no token sales - 5th/Independence was one
of those. Some stations did have an adjacent window in which tokens and passes were sold - Fern
Rock on the BSL and Girard on the MFSE were two examples on each rapid transit route.
MACTRAXX

Everyone - More observations about the SEPTA Key use on Regional Rail:

4-With the implementation of the Key system on Regional Rail SEPTA should adequately notify RRD
riders that have passes that it will not be absolutely necessary to both tap in or out at your outlying
destination station unless you are using a "pay-per-ride" option via value stored on a Travel Wallet.
This could save some riders the hassle of having to go to a validator upon leaving a station.

5-Will the introduction of the Key bring time limits for the first time to Regional Rail? Example: With
a three hour time limit similar to one that BART in the SF Bay Area has used for many years there
could be problems for riders that have long commutes - especially those that transfer in CCP to ride
another line. The reason I bring this up is if SEPTA will charge an additional fare after a designated
time period in the "paid area" of the system especially if there is no card activity for a hours-long
length of time. As most of us know there has never been any time limitation like this - except for
one noticeable exception which leads me to my next observation...

6-Will the Center City stopover for those using Anywhere via CCP "Tunnel" tickets become a thing
of the past requiring riders to remain inside the "paid" area at Center City stations?

There are two variations of these tickets sold: The SEPTA-sold version has the day of the week and
originating route punched on the first train - and then gets the destination zone number punched to
cancel the ticket on the second train. The NJT sold version has no day designation and is therefore
valid anytime for six months to use the second ride. Recently a third Anywhere one way ticket type
was introduced with the kiosk TVMs at the Airport printed on Quick Trip stock valid only on the date
of sale. QT cards have a magnetic strip on the back for turnstile entrance.

SEPTA introduced these tickets with the opening of the Center City Tunnel back in late 1984. Back
during the 1980s into sometime during the 90s they had the added limit of an actual transfer time
that was punched on the ticket - the general time period was usually three to four hours. I would
sometimes ask the crew member for more time while using these tickets to stop over and never
was turned down. The ticket design on these tickets were simplified by eliminating the transfer
time meaning that one could stop over for unlimited time in CCP as long as the second ride was
completed on the day of the week punched.

With the current staffing hours of the turnstiles at the big three Center City stations and free exit
will an Anywhere via CCP ticket be accepted at the gate to re-enter the system to use the second
ride to (destination)? A possible way to explain having to leave the "paid" area is having to use
rest rooms at CCP stations - which are all outside the gates with one known exception: Suburban
Station Tracks 5-6-7 have access to rest rooms at their west end. In this case SEPTA does need
to clarify exactly if there will be any added limitations for riders like myself that use these tickets.

MACTRAXX

I ran across this article yesterday. Admittedly it's only one person's view but the poster makes some interesting points ... nearly all of which are violated by the Key's ham-fisted implementation.

I never got an answer about my password recovery problem, but they do seem to have fixed the problem, I was able to get a forgot password email and reset my password.

Which now lets me check my travel wallet. I got the 37 bus in Essington, transferred to the Broad St subway, then to the 84 bus at Frankford. Once upon a time that would have been 2 transfers. Either they now limit us to only 1 transfer, and I'm too lazy to research, or the 2nd transfer was after a time limit. Somewhere in my webifigation I saw a 'dispute charge' button which let me compose my complaint.
Curiously where the forgot password emails didn't seem to work I got 2 confirm emails on my dispute charge.

It's been a while since I've made any weekend SEPTA travels versus weekday commuting, but went in on Saturday to do some "touristy" things. What I saw was an embarrassment:

- LOTS of confusion and even anger over the no-transfer policy, with several groups (families, arriving college students, etc.) upset at having to dig deeper. I'll grant some of it was on their shoulders for relying on outdated info from third-party sources like Yelp and TripAdvisor instead of checking directly with SEPTA's site, but it still didn't create any new transit fans. At a minimum SEPTA should be putting signage at each station rather than just on vehicles.

- Similar confusion at fare kiosks, e.g. people lined up 10-12 deep at the 5th St. / Independence stop on the MFSE trying to figure out if they needed a card, a QuickTrip, etc., overloading the sole SEPTA employee at that station.

- Frustration from out-of-towners who (silly them) boarded a vehicle, expecting the card readers to accept credit or mobile payments just like in their home cities. Yes, the limits are documented on SEPTA's FAQ page but should people really have to research fare options like they were writing a school paper?

How does any of this help the city's image with visitors, not to mention make converts out of local but infrequent riders? Several of the people I stopped to help told me they were sufficiently put off that they were thinking about driving or using Uber for future travel.

With key fully in place in the city and booth blobs being phased out, is SEPTA going to add turnstiles or 2-way gates on the outbound platforms on the MFSE? It's very annoying to have to enter one side and work the extra steps to get to the other side, not to mention time consuming if a train is missed because riders are forced to pay on one side.

Any word on when SEPTA is bringing TVM's to outlying Regional Rail stations or has SEPTA scrapped that idea? They have they fare tappers with the parking meters set up but out of service, but no indication on any TVM's. Judging by the SEPTA key map, they only have them at rapid transit stations or transportation centers. Nothing out on Paoli/Thorndale past 30th within spitting distance. Is SEPTA just keeping rail station attendants at those odd hours from 6 to 11:45 to dispense key cards then?

Jeff:

I am currently in the area myself - this being the first time since paper transfers were eliminated. I noticed two instances in which cash riders wanted transfers.
In one of those cases a bus driver put his hand over the farebox after $2.50 cash was paid and then explained the no-transfer policy...Needless to say that rider
was not happy...Took notice that SEPTA has eliminated Legacy Transpasses and (in)Convenience Passes from http://shop.septa.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but noticed some riders still
are using CVP's. I have one remaining - and with the new policy $9 for eight rides is an even bigger bargain...We can not forget the $13 Independence Pass which
will now pay for itself with even fewer rides - especially if a RRD Weekday round trip (the most common IPass use) is factored in to the equation...

I still think that SEPTA should have retained paper transfers until an alternative QT card that includes a $1 transfer was up and available instead of putting cash
riders into a bit of a bind...Tourists and others not familiar with the system are going to "bear the brunt" of these fare changes implemented this month...

I just can not see tourists shelling out money for a SEPTA Key knowing full well how inflexible that they are and remembering what tokens once offered which was
(in case anyone is reading this topic for the first time) a 50 cent savings per ride in cost for starters. This in essence was a fare increase for cash fare riders...

MACTRAXX

Sounds like a fantastic advertisement for Uber