Saratoga & North Creek (S&NC) Discussion - 2012

This thread is for the discussion of the operations, equipment, and history of the Saratoga & North Creek Railway, operators of the former Delaware & Hudson Adirondack Branch, part of which was operated by the Upper Hudson River Railroad. Any relevant news stories posted from outside sources require a link to the original article plus a brief "fair-use" quote.

Official web site: https://www.sncrr.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saratoga ... 9108203732

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Gore-Mou ... 8036344775

-otto-

I rode the S&NC polar express this past december. They were great. the ride was nice, the people were super friendly and helpful. i made a mistake with my schedule and they bent over backwards to help me and my family. i recomend them to anyone and everyone!!!

Per Otto's mention in the 2011 thread, SNC has indeed bought or is in the process of buying the DLW E8s.

http://cnynrhs.org/

"After reconditioning, the E8s will be painted in the Saratoga and North Creek D&H-inspired paint scheme."

I hope they're painted in the D&H PA blue warbonnet look. That said, it would also be very D&H-history-correct to leave them in Lackawanna paint, as D&H leased EL passenger power in later years for Adirondack and Laurentian service. This was done when both roads were under the Dereco umbrella, in the wintertime, when the PAs were doubled up on most trains.

Tadman wrote:I hope they're painted in the D&H PA blue warbonnet look.

S&NC released artwork last year showing what the E8's would look like, similar to what the BL-2 is painted.

According to the S&NC Yahoo list, the Snow Train has the GE running on the north end, and the BL-2 on the south end.

-otto-

Quick question. I was browsing through the other threads and came across one on the Adirondack Scenic one. It was talking about how if the rails are pulled up from Remsen to Lake Placid, the trail could not be used for recreational use because of environmental restrictions. I wonder if the same thing could be said if the rails were pulled up along the corridor between North Creek and Tahawus and if the rail-trail argument would be for naught. Link: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 28&t=90312

Who's bored? Who wants to read pages and pages of utter nonsense aimed at preventing jobs and commerce? Put on your hip waders, it's gonna get deep...

I hate sending web traffic to these brain-deads, but have fun: Letter dated January 10 from the trail-pushers to the STB:

http://upperhudson.org/downloads/FUHRT-STBjan13.pdf

Sounds like sour grapes because these folks didn't get their own way to me!

Charlie

Guys, rather than speculate, everything you need to know 'bout the whole Tahawus thing is online with the STB --

Docket Number FD_35559_0

Case Title: SARATOGA AND NORTH CREEK RAILWAY, LLC--OPERATION EXEMPTION--TAHAWUS LINE

41980: Notice of Exemption 11/10/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readin ... enDocument

231173: Saratoga & North Creek Notice of Exemption 10/25/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

231287: Protect the Adirondacks! Protest/Opposition Statement
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

231320: Saratoga & North Creek Reply 11/22/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

42039: Decision: 11/23/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readin ... enDocument

231402: Saratoga & North Creek Appeal 12/05/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

231417: Saratoga & North Creek Correction 12/05/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

231418: NL Industries Letter/Telegram 12/05/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

231539: NYSDEC Environmental Materials 12/21/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

231553: Saratoga & North Creek Motion/Petition/Request 12/21/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument

231575: Protect the Adirondacks! Reply 12/27/2011
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... enDocument


After all that, take a look at this post by Ed Ellis, President of Iowa Pacific to a rail discussion group:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/SNCRR/message/234

Re: Concerns Raised Over Adirondack Rail Proposal - Saratoga and North Creek Railroad

What the media have missed in this whole discussion is the purpose of the STB filing.

SNC has already purchased the line from NL Industries, and it will be reopened
in 2012, assuming there is freight to move. But we filed with the STB to put
the line in common carrier status, instead of the private spur status that has
existed since the line was built.

No STB permission is required to continue to operate the line as a private spur,
and NYSDOT relinquished its right of first refusal to buy it, which enabled us
to close the deal with NL.

Had the STB granted the exemption, or if it does so on appeal, we would have
common carrier regulation of the line. But if they don't grant the exemption,
we would have to file a full application to put it in common carrier status, and
isn't worth it to us. We will continue to operate as a private spur.

Either way, the continued existence of the line is settled,but nobody seems to
understand that.

If "Protect the Adirondacks" was paying attention, they would have welcomed the
common carrier status because it would give them hooks into the outcome of any
future abandonment, or even the opportunity for adverse abandonment, that
doesn't exist with a private spur.

Go figure.

Ed Ellis
President
Saratoga and North Creek

It seems that the line is making progress on being able to run freight, so any speculations as to what type of locomotive we'll see on the freight trains?

Id be curious to see if the C39-8 gets bumped to freight service, and the new E-units run the passenger trains. Perhaps Iowa Pacific will send in something new entirely, now that would be fun !

With the acquisition of the new E-units, will there still be a second BL2 brought in? I havent been able to see anything except the C39-8 as everytime ive been in North Creek the train has been gone. Anyone know when the train is usually in North Creek? Ive tried reading the schedule on the SNC website, but its confusing. Whats the difference between Train 1 and Train 2 anyways?

I would say that the B39-8 would end up pulling freight and the E8's and BL2's would end up on the passenger service. I thought they already own the other BL2, and I can't see anyone pulling freight out of the Adirondacks with just one engine, so I think you's see a few more locomotives, probably at least one more B39-8, and maybe a few more locomotives. This is all just speculation of course, who knows until it happens. I just can't see pulling ore out of those grades with just one engine.

Littlefoot14 wrote:It seems that the line is making progress on being able to run freight, so any speculations as to what type of locomotive we'll see on the freight trains?

Why speculate? When it happens, it happens. They only have a number of locomotives on hand, and "asset utilization" means using whatever you have on hand to get the job done.

-otto-

Speculation can be fun. Like MLB trade rumors. I believe we will see some interesting motive power, but I also think it will be just as interesting to see what kind of rolling stock pops up. I've been wondering myself as to whether they will have the shorty ore cars, or the Ortner style aggregate hoppers, or just second and third hand 3 bay hoppers.....

Mem160 wrote:Speculation can be fun. Like MLB trade rumors...

We don't really put too much stock in speculation or rumors here. I think if you read through enough of these threads, you'll see that our members pride themselves on gathering information and sharing it where we can (and when appropriate).

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

-otto-

Wow. Take it easy dude. I don't see what the big deal is..... I answered the guy's question..... with a little speculation. Maybe it was the wrong word to use, all I meant was I have no inside information, that it. I didn't mean to start a big argument with you here, really..... it honestly was not my intention.

by the way, I also apologize to anyone else on this thread who may have taken my comments wrongly. I was just typing what I was thinking. No harm meant. I rode the S&NC in the beginning of August and was impressed even more so than when I rode the Adirondack Scenic for the first time. It is a first class organization and I think it's full potential has yet to be reached. I look forward to seeing what happens with it and where it goes. I think it will be interesting..... I only wish I was a tad closer - I don't get around that way as much as I'd like to.