RR Museums: May I Vent?

David Telesha wrote:Noel,

Hate to break it to you, but you are just pontificating the snobby attitude I mention.

Listen to yourself, you fit right in:

So NHRHTA people, go play with your plastic models or brass or whatever they are made of {snip} Meantime you can all talk about your
toys and models. {snip} All I can say is SHAME, SHAME, SHAME. {snip} OH, one more thing, the RMNE people and the former New Haven Railroad
people can lay claim to having operated this wonderful locomotive and
the NHRHTA people generally can NOT.

Screw the models Noel, even I'm fed up with them, but that last sentence is a doozy. Maybe you should also note most NHRHTA members are in fact former employees of the New Haven Railroad.

Oh well, way to go - thanks for making my point for me.

Instead of marching up to the RMNE with their New Haven hats, maybe
NHRHTA people would do better to march up with a few dollars for a ticket to ride or a donation.
As for NHRHTA members, I do not have knowledge of a roster of
subscribers of NHRHTA so I am not going to challenge you but I do not
think there are too many who formerly worked for the NHRR.
I don't think you are qualified to know either, you weren't around in the
NHRR days.
As we used to say to new employees: "The ink isn't even dry on your
application yet".
Some months ago, David, you expressed interest in working for a railroad
and at that time I advised you to join the RMNE, go there and learn the
ropes.
Even with the bashing that you have put on here, if you were to take my
advice and join up and volunteer, you could really get some satisfaction
out of your efforts, learn some valuable railroad knowledge and work with
some really great people in doing so.
I have a forty one year connection with the railroad industry but believe
me the RMNE is operated in a very efficient and professional matter.
I think you may have been "brainwashed" by somebody, somewhere.
Noel Weaver

Artielang:

The secret for getting the rail museum experience that the true fans want (as opposed to putting up with screaming kids, etc) is to attend a Railfan Day at these places. I know RMNE (my favorite example!!) runs photos freights, drags out locos not usually operated, and generally sets things up for a great day of well-lit, well-composed photo locations with trains that you can't see during the "regular" operating days. And RMNE lets potential RF Day customers know that young kids and daisypickers are not "encouraged" to purchase tix.

The Rochester Group just did a great RF Day (to judge from the pix), and plenty of other places do so, too.

And on regular trip days, don't be afraid to ask for a cab ride-- you might get one, and the engine noise will drown out the screaming kids!!

Have fun and be safe.

I am a railfan. I am also a history buff. At times, I could even be happily classified as a tourist. Concidering that I own a house, now, in CT and have a wife and 2.3 yr old to go with it, I may even fall into the catagory of "swamp yuppie."
That having been said,
When I go to a museum, I look at the EXHIBITS.
When I got to a theater, I WATCH the SHOW.
When I am at an AQUARIUM, I am there to LOOK at the FISH!!!!!
When I take a CRUISE, I look at the SIGHTS!
And when I am on a train that is NOT COMMUTER RAIL or AMTRAK, I ENJOY THE RIDE, and let OTHERS do the SAME!
Granted, my two yr old will often interract with other kids, or more likeley any "Grandpa's" that she finds-and THAT'S FINE!
BUT! I PAY for my TICKET and SUPPORT whichever attraction, group, museum I am at, be it train, boat or whatever.
I TURN OFF my CELLPHONE because whoever is trying to reach me can WAIT an HOUR or two till I get OFF THE TRAIN, or boat or thearter and I don't see why OTHERS should not be expected to do the same,
AND while I enjoy seeing my daughter interact with others, I realize that the posibility exists that not everyone might want to interract with her, (although I have yet to see it, fortunately,) so I am ever prepared pull her away if "Grandpa" would rather not have a 2 yr old hanging off his trouser leg.
But I was brought up with a couple of things made inherent:
1) Respect for elders,
2)Respect for property of others,
3)Common courtesey/respect for others and
4)an AWARENESS of PEOPLE with CAMERAS trying to get a shot!
I could elaborate on WHY I think more people have a problem with such things nowadays, but we are talking about railroad museums here and not society in general or as a whole.
OK, that's my $0.02 worth.

RE: RMNE vs. NHRTHA- there may be some personality conflicts here and there, but I don't think one or two hard-headed people who post topics out of context should ruin your opinion about either organization. If my opinions were formed by what I read posted on the Internet, I probably wouldn't be involved in any organization (Have you read what that Otto guy posted lately?)... RMNE and NHRTHA both do good work towards preservation. If you have a disagreement, it's probably with a particular person who does not represent the community as a whole... which is sometimes nice to talk about but hard to do in real life. Most of these experiences can be chalked up to misunderstandings (and believe me, I've had my share of "misunderstandings" over the years)...

Can we please declare a truce on the RMNE/NHRTHA thing for a while?

My original comment still stands: Support your local railroad museum and tourist train operation any way you can- even if the railfans, daisy-pickers, screaming kids, and yuppies-on-cell-phones ruin it for you.

-otto-

ps- After everyone has gone home at night, I turn on all the lights in the DLW MU car, burn the headlight bright, activate the trainline buzzer, and imagine the car still has an active throttle. The screams of the children have retreated far into the distance, and my sunburn has begun to subside... and I'm alone in my MU car pretending to depart Hoboken track 11.

"The Daisy Pickers and the Yuppies support the museums and the Railfans do NOT". I must disagree. That statement is only partially true, if true at all.
Let me tell you who ARE supporting the museums:
People like HOWARD PINCUS, who drives nearly a hundred miles (and return) from his home in White Plains to Thomaston Ct EVERY WEEKEND, on his own time, without compensation, at his own expense.
DITTO for Bostonians who commute WEEKLY to the Seashore Trolley Museum, 90 miles away in Maine, nearly EVERY WEEKEND OF THE YEAR.
The Seashore Trolley Museum was BUILT THIS WAY and has been building itself up this way for SIXTY YEARS!. Ask longtime Seashore members about pooling their gas ration cards in the Second World War, and crowding into one automobile to make their weekly jaunts up to Maine.
People like FRED MALONEY, and BILL POLLMAN, who give their museum virtually every free weekend they have. When a trolley car is about to be aqquired, they write out checks in FOUR FIGURES (these are working stiffs, I mean) to fund these projects.
A daisy picker may buy a ticket, A THOMAS THE TANK ENGINE coloring book, and maybe even toss a coin in the donation box. It's people like HOWARD, and FRED, and BILL (and those visionaries of 60 years ago who passed the hat to "save" car # 31 on its' last run) that the hats are off to.
These people GIVE themselves to their museums, and are the REAL supporters.

Am to B & M 7, Fred bought a three decker house in 1972 to help support his goals of restoring streetcars, he has done five and is now commiting 10k to the future Coney car house. Amazing. I don't even have a car, I take the Down Easter, I'm 27... I attempt to stay away from girls to support the museum. It is hard to stay away from girls...LOL. Once they diss my museum I dump them.

B&M E7 wrote:"The Daisy Pickers and the Yuppies support the museums and the Railfans do NOT". I must disagree. That statement is only partially true, if true at all.
Let me tell you who ARE supporting the museums:
People like HOWARD PINCUS, who drives nearly a hundred miles (and return) from his home in White Plains to Thomaston Ct EVERY WEEKEND, on his own time, without compensation, at his own expense.
DITTO for Bostonians who commute WEEKLY to the Seashore Trolley Museum, 90 miles away in Maine, nearly EVERY WEEKEND OF THE YEAR.
The Seashore Trolley Museum was BUILT THIS WAY and has been building itself up this way for SIXTY YEARS!. Ask longtime Seashore members about pooling their gas ration cards in the Second World War, and crowding into one automobile to make their weekly jaunts up to Maine.
People like FRED MALONEY, and BILL POLLMAN, who give their museum virtually every free weekend they have. When a trolley car is about to be aqquired, they write out checks in FOUR FIGURES (these are working stiffs, I mean) to fund these projects.
A daisy picker may buy a ticket, A THOMAS THE TANK ENGINE coloring book, and maybe even toss a coin in the donation box. It's people like HOWARD, and FRED, and BILL (and those visionaries of 60 years ago who passed the hat to "save" car # 31 on its' last run) that the hats are off to.
These people GIVE themselves to their museums, and are the REAL supporters.

I absolutely agree with you on this one. I have seen it over the years at
Branford and other places too. Surely, RMNE would not exist if it were not
for the backbone of support from people like Howard Pincus, Bill and Sue
Sample and the many other people who do behind the scenes work at
Thomaston, Danbury, Branford, Willimantic, Kennebunkport and all the
other volunteer organizations.
The biggest source of revenue for most of the museums is operations
whether it be with a trolley car(s), diesel or steam train or whatever. The
biggest source of revenue from operations comes from the general public
and not from average railfans.
My Saturday at Thomaston saw only one or two railfans and my
Wednesday at Branford saw no other railfans present.
Again, I have the deepest respect for the volunteers at the various
museums and train operations all over the place, I surely appreciate what
they are doing. If I was still living in the north east, you would often find
me at Thomaston.
Noel Weaver

Ohhh, my topic is getting nasty here! Wahhappa?

Actually nothing is happening here that is at all unusual. After 35 to 45 years of being a member of several railroad historical groups, I can only observe that some degree of "friction" is present in most of them. In some, it is an ongoing internal war between the factions representing interest in various predecessor railroads, in others it is an ongoing competition with other groups that have similar interests. Too bad all the energy expended in debating could not be directed into activities that produce more worthwhile results.

The August, 2005 issue of CTC Board Magazine has a beautiful color shot
of 529 at Chases (Waterville) on the cover as well as two more shots of
this engine inside. It is all part of a 13 page article about Alco's in the
east, worth the price of the whole magazine.
Noel Weaver

My parents used to talk about "tourist storage areas" -- places like Clark's Trained Bears, Quincy Market, and so on that kept the bored tourists in a few places where they could spend lots of money, have a good time, and stay out of the way.
A lot of tourist rrs have a kind of tourist storage weekend -- Thomas. The Whitewater RR (out here in Indiana, where I live now) makes enough money on Thomas weekend to pay for the year's operations. (Or something like that; I forget the exact stat.)
I'm being careful to keep my 3-year-old daughter from finding out about A Day Out With Thomas the Tank Engine. She likes to gawk at strings of coal hoppers, take the Needham like from Roslindale, and ride on regular trains. (We took the Lake Shore from Chicago to Boston this summer and she loved it.) I'll let Thomas subsidize us. I want to keep it that way. With little kids you do need to tell them some of what's happening, but I try to stick to the train itself. Having fun on a train is OK whether you do it like a fan or not. Going and complaining IS obnoxious. I wonder sometimes why some of the people I see on trains, on trails, in museums, etc., have bothered to come at all. So many people see to go to "attractions" because they think they're supposed to, not because they like to.
BTW, the Conway Scenic and the Needham commuter line were my first trains, and Edaville, and the Wolfeboro RR. Somehow going on a train in the woods seemed different, more real. Funny, because the T is real and CSRR is just for fun.

What kind of money would it take to
remedy the wheel problems?
Ballpark estimate anyway.

onder wrote:What kind of money would it take to
remedy the wheel problems?
Ballpark estimate anyway.

I am not sure that I am qualified to answer this one but it seems to me
that about thirty thousand dollars could make a big dent in this project.
It is not just the wheels but the equipment to lift the locomotive and the
labor which is not likely to be volunteer also has to be factored in.
Unfortunately, many New Haven Railroad fans are more interested in
model and toy trains than in real trains on real tracks.
Noel Weaver