RR Museums: May I Vent?

I often take the MBTA commuter rail from Kingston to Boston and return. My first action when getting on board is to open my case and remove the EARPLUGS!......I can't stand the constant stupid cell phone "tunes" popping up at random locations in the coach followed by screaming conversation about NOTHING!! GRRR! People feel that they have to yell into the phone or the other party won't hear them!

I'ts not as bad in the morning run into the city but coming back anytime after 3:00pm,....YIKES!!

A good place to get "industrial strength" earplugs is at a Lowe's, Home Depot or a lumber/building materials type store. They don't completely cut off all noise, but sure reduce it about 80% or so.

If this sounds like a problem that you are having, run to the store and get a pair (or 5!, in case you lose a set) and see what a difference it makes.

Paul

Recently I visted the Ft Myers Historical Museum (former train station on the Atlantic Coast Line). Outside of the museum was a semaphore signal missing the blade(Thanks to Hurricane Charley) Also they have a 1929 Pullman Car named" Esperanza" The Curator gives you the key to tour the inside of the car, they used to have a sound system inside that actually made you feel like it was rolling down the ROW. Unfortunately the sound system was tampered with by someone and it wasn't running.

OTTO: What Museum do you conduct tours at? Also the curator is looking for pictures of any remaining Pullman Cars for the display inside the "Esperanza" Is there a picture of the Pullman Car at your museum I can send to her? I have already sent a picture of the car located in Edison NJ.

When I am in Rochester and I'm available, I volunteer some sundays at the Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum... no picture of our car yet, the 1939 Pullman Standard PRR Pine Falls.

http://www.rgvrrm.org/

-otto-

I'm joining this thread kinda late, but....

When I used to be conductor on the VRR / Essex Steam Train, I would see a few people talking on cell phones. It gave me quite a laugh since they would be talking, then repeating themselves or shouting, since reception along that line is limited (at best). I mean come on, people. You're on vacation. Leave the cell phone in your car, or at least off while on an excursion train. Spend time with your family!

-JH

Oh, DON'T get me going on CELL PHONES!!!

(ring ring)
"Hi? Oh HIIIII! Yes... Oh, I am shopping... yeah... there's a sale on soap... yeah... oh we are going on a month's vacation... oh I am so tired... I'm so busy..."

But I digress...

OK, I submit to the fact that most of the museum's money comes from non-railfans... But maybe the museums need to try and get these people interested. I have taken some rides that have just about no interaction between staff and riders. Some rides have had people talking and teaching the riders, and that seems far better than just letting people yap and so forth.

I guess I just get mad at the fact good museums are kept afloat by casual visitors, not die-hard "fans". Good museums are there to preserve and teach. I'd sure hate to see them all dissapear...

I guess one way to look at it is, it's hard to teach someone with no interest in learning.

Honest;y though, I find it sad because I see so many people in tehir own little worlds doing stuff becuase they "have to" (to keep the kids occupied or whatever), talking on their cell phone EVERYWHERE, always needing "entertainment", etc.

What happened to people who could actually LIVE life and EXPERIENCE it first hand, instead of life being the background for their (inane) cell phone conversations, trips to the store, and video rentals?

Of course I get the same feeling to soemtimes when urban/suburban "yuppie-types" go to "the country"- they are BORED if there's no big desinations or a water park or something; they think it's so "wonderful" but have no grasp of the workings of that beautiful forest or pristine dairy farm they are looking at- which is fine, if they can experience it and wnat to learn about it; but most seem to view the farm or forest as "background" on the way to Thunder Mountain Water PArk or whatever, and really don't care to learn about them either. Personally, I can't see driving 6 hours out of the city to ignore what makes this place different from where they came from...

Of course, when I was growing up I went camping and palyed with toys tractors and tarins and trucks. Todays's kids are usually charting unfamiliar territory whenever they turn the computer games off. This trend is probably not helping matters!

I have read most of the previous entries and I have had enough.
Most of you may not realize that the railfans do not support the museums.
All of them are depended on outsiders for important revenue from train
or other operations. These operations are supported by the "daisy pickers" or in other words the general public.
Probably in most cases, less than 5 per cent of the revenue from operation comes from railfans and yet they go and seem to take over in
some cases and act like they even own the place.
When some family with noisy kids, loud chatter and general getting in the
way types show up, just remember that it is people like this who are
supporting these operations and not the railfan with their expensive
cameras and recording equipment some of whom do not even buy a
ticket to ride but expect red carpet treatment anyway.
These museums deserve membership dollars, contributions and volunteer
work and support.
The non-railfan types are the ones who buy tickets, patronize the souvenir
stand and if the museum is a pleasant experience they also spread the
word to others. This is what museums and museum operations need to
survive, not a bunch of camera toting railfans who contribute little.
Case in point, the last New Haven Railroad RS-3 no. 529 at the Railroad
Museum of New England in Thomaston needs wheel work and without that
all important wheel work, 529 soon will be stored with no further use
until the work has been taken care of.
I put an entry on the NHRHTA forum to this effect and I have gotten almost no response from neither the leadership of NHRHTA nor the other users of the forum. This does not always have to be the case and indeed is not always the case, the RMNE recently got a nice donation/grant from Mass Bay RRE to help get the Boston & Maine GP-9 back into operation.
It it too bad that many of the New Haven people do not feel the same way
about the 529.
Noel Weaver

Noel makes an excellent point. Forget about the daisy-pickers and the annoying yuppies on cell phones... how about OTHER RAILFANS? You know how many times I hear these comments from other railfans visiting my museum?

"WHY did you save THAT car when ____ is sitting away rusting in ____?"

"WHEN are you going to paint the _____?" or "That shade of paint on the _____ is all wrong. When will you repaint it to its proper colors?"

"HOW COME the ______ doesn't run? It's been in the shop for ____ years, aren't you done with it yet?"

"WHY don't you have a ________? If you had one of those, I'd support your museum."

"This seat cushion is ripped. You should get someone to fix it."

"WHY isn't the ride longer?"

"You've been working on that new siding for four years. What's taking so long?"

"WHY should I BUY a TICKET when I can come here and shoot the equipment for free after you close?"

And there are many more variations on that theme. All I can say: Join a museum. Swing a hammer. Contribute a few bucks. Or a few drops of sweat some summer replacing ties or tarring a roof. Enter into years-long negotiations with a railroad to preserve a historic piece. Work with towns and municipalites for easements and other complicated matters of doing business as a museum. Clean the gutters of the depot. Sweep the waiting room floor. Show up. IN OTHER WORDS: Don't criticize the work of your fellow railfans unless you are willing to come in and contribute a workable solution.

-otto-
Member: R&GV Railroad Museum, RMNE/Naugatuck Railroad, NYCS Historical Society

One time I was working at a museum when a railfan followed me around for quite some time suggesting we do this and suggesting we do that. Finally when he suggested that we paint such and such, I had had enough and picked up a paint brush and tried to hand it to him. I never saw him again.

Ths point is that these yuppies ruin the train experience for us railfans, using the cell phones or computers or letting the kids run a round screaming like maniacs. How did this get to bashing the work of the museums? I cant see where that happened. I dont see where anybody is critizing their work. And Noel didnt get any respons to his money raising ideas on the NHRHTA forum because he didnt go about it the right way. If you want some fund raising project to get started, go through the proper channels, such as the RMNE's President or mabey they have a fund raising committee. If they dont, get involved, as the past couple of posts are suggesting, and start that committee. And you should probably leave the NHRHTA out of it, since they arent connected with the RMNE and probably shouldnt get involved unless they have the permission of the RMNE. Mabey you guys should get this topic back on track before its locked. They lock these things for the stupidest things, like the incorrect puncuation at the end of a sentence.

Artie Lang Is Fat

Everyone: Good topic with lots of good points and observations! It just amazes me what can occur on the tourist railroad/museum circuit. I agree about annoyances such as cellphones-I am no fan. I grew up also playing with toys of the 1965-1975 period-some people are so dependent on technology they could not function if they lived,say in the 70s for example. No one is perfect-but as we all know,common courtesy goes a long way from respecting a photo line to learning something about the rail equipment at a certain location,for example or not being rude and obnoxious during a guided tour. I do not have much monetary means but I am helping out in rail preservation some way-I have volunteered my service at the NRHS national library in Philadelphia since 1991. Getting involved in the preservation of rail history no matter what you do is a labor of love to many so involved-without them where will this history be? Thoughts and observations from MACTRAXX

David Telesha wrote:

And you should probably leave the NHRHTA out of it, since they arent connected with the RMNE and probably shouldnt get involved unless they have the permission of the RMNE.

Exactly.

My opinion, the RMNE thinks they are "too good" for a historical association and do not like us (NHRHTA members) anyway. Thats a fact - go there with a NH hat "Ohhhh, are you one of those NHRHTA guys?". Or better yet, inquire about something and you'll get a "so when will you be helping out?" - but if some "yuppie visitor" asks, they get a straight answer. WHY? The RMNE is a great museum and operation - its just too bad the current crop running it is a bunch of snobs.


Sure the yuppies and daisy pickers pay the bills, but do they have to be asses while they do it?

/end rant

David, the people at RMNE sure did not act like "snobs" to be. They have
a full size, working railroad to run and have to run under both state and
federal standards. That means that they have rules and standards that
like it or not govern their operation.
I have seen times when some NHRHTA people acted as if they were "GOD", especially at the reunion in North Haven.
There has probably been resentment on the part of RMNE because some
people in the NHRHTA have tried to tell them how to run their operation or
how to restore a locomotive or how to paint an item etc.
It would be really nice to see cooperation between the two, however, when the "leader" of NHRHTA states: "So now they can kiss me where the
sun don't shine. I'll go buy another model and advise everyone else to do
the same". It was signed by the president.
This is not a very effective way to try to keep a 55 year old historic
locomotive in operation.
Noel Weaver

David Telesha wrote:I understand all that about operations, Noel.

About this:

or how to paint an item etc.

They've done the same thing to us (NHRHTA)! Some RMNEers tried to boss the TC on the NHRHTA forum into having Atlas put 529 on the production RS-3 despite the fact our obligation to prototype accuracy would be to suggest 551 and 559 due to the different features. Its a two-way street, Noel.

They may not act like snobs to you (why would anyone want to - you are a nice guy), but my experience isn't so pleasant.

It would be really nice to see cooperation between the two, however, when the "leader" of NHRHTA states: "So now they can kiss me where the
sun don't shine. I'll go buy another model and advise everyone else to do
the same". It was signed by the president.

It was a private e-mail in response to a snide comment.

There's resentment on both sides and it keeps becoming more and more clear.

To cover the last sentence first, yes there might be resentment on both
sides. I tried to work around past problems and get the organizations to
work together to keep a piece of the New Haven Railroad in regular
operation but the NHRHTA people did not join in.
So NHRHTA people, go play with your plastic models or brass or whatever
they are made of while 529 may well have made its final revenue trip this
past weekend for quite some time. It is likely to sit on a siding and see
very little if any use in the future. Meantime you can all talk about your
toys and models. Because you don't like somebody and he does not like
somebody else and because one organization wants to march to another
with their hats on, 529 will sit and decay.
All I can say is SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.
This is not much tribute to the people who once worked for the New Haven
railroad whether they are still around or not.
NHRHTA can bury the topic and they did but they can't hide the truth, I
have saved the topic and will dristribute it to various individuals as time
permits.
OH, one more thing, the RMNE people and the former New Haven Railroad
people can lay claim to having operated this wonderful locomotive and
the NHRHTA people generally can NOT.
Noel Weaver

[quote="David Telesha"]. Maybe you should also note most NHRHTA members are in fact former employees of the New Haven Railroad.

David, Where did you get this information from?
The same place you got the car numbers that were being scrapped at the VRR?
I find this very hard to believe.

They've done the same thing to us (NHRHTA)! Some RMNEers tried to boss the TC on the NHRHTA forum into having Atlas put 529 on the production RS-3 despite the fact our obligation to prototype accuracy would be to suggest 551 and 559 due to the different features. Its a two-way street, Noel.

It should be noted that an RMNE member suggested (not BOSSED the Tech Committee) that one of the Atlas NH RS-3s carry the 529 number, as there would be some market for a model with that number. Atlas did indeed make a special run of NH 529s; one shop, the Hobby Gallery in Wolcott, CT, sold 60+ and I suspect there are other shops that decided to stock the 529 model.

They may not act like snobs to you (why would anyone want to - you are a nice guy), but my experience isn't so pleasant.

David, you've been extended many invitations to visit NAUG and ride engine cabs, get yard tours, etc.-- in short, to see what RMNE does, because you have more than a casual interest in, and knowledge of rail preservation-- that you would appreciate the opportunity. I don't recall seeing you take advantage of the invite. Why do you say your "experience isn't so pleasant"??

Now, on to the subject of NHRHTA and RMNE: In prior years, there was a considerable cooperation between the two organizations, so much so that the RMNE's 1991 plans for a permanent New England Railroad Museum at Danbury included an archive building for NHRHTA's archive materials, and NHRHTA was listed in the proposal document as a sponsor of the Museum. And that's just one example of many. More recently, RMNE has on two occasions, offered to operate for NHRHTA on the Sunday of the NHRHTA's Reunion Weekend, and do the special sort of railfan-oriented stuff--runbys, freight train, etc.--that the NH fans would like. No interest on the part of NHRHTA's management; wonder if the reunion attendees might have liked it?

It is pretty clear that the current NHRHTA leadership has little interest in full-size preservation (none of them have visited in 9+ years, despite invitiations by RMNE). Many RMNE members are NHRHTA members; it seems that the reverse is not the same.

As to the issues of earlier this year, the "brick for a brick" and the "what color does 0401 get painted?" controversies: first, the EF-4 loco is not a priority project, and if someone wants to initiate a fundraising project for it, perhaps it would be best to discuss it with RMNE before springing it on RMNE in a public forum. There are other issues with that proposal that were not well thought out, but RMNE is labeled as "uncooperative". So be it.

Second, the 0401 project-- see Otto's on-target commentary above. Why not finish the 0401 before anyone worries about paint?

The NHRHTA group has chosen to censor the thread on their forum that discussed these things; that is their site, and their right to shut down discourse if they choose. It is my hope that the same does not happen here; I have tried to keep this out of the realm of personal (and organizational) attack. NHRHTA as a group does valuable work, particularly in its publications and archive effort. Obviously, my primary interest is in the preservation of the real items of the NH (and other N.E. roads), and I have seen little of that interest in the NH group.

To all reading this thread: The same invitations extended to David apply to others-- if you have a serious interest in railroad preservation (and are not just looking for a "free ride"), come and visit RMNE/NAUG. Tell them Harry Foster Malone sent you. Over the years, RMNE has given many people many unique opportunities to see and do things that should not exist in this day and age. We enjoy what we do, and are not stingy about sharing that fun and enjoyment.

Harry Foster Malone
Special Consultant
RMNE
Cape Anne, Maine