Home for URHS museum at old CNJ terminal?

Donoko142, No museum? So what is Whippany Railway Museum, Cape May, Maywood, Black River out of Flemington,etc? Just because there is no state sponsored mueum with preserved equipment with every railroad from all of NJ doesn't mean it's hopeless. Just look at all the other railway museums that are doing 1000 better and have done very well to preserve their equipment and have aquired other equipment to restore with dedicated volunteers and donations of money and materials.

As for the URHS. I do hope that they are successful in their mission to restore even a good sized portion where railway equipment of the roads that ran in/out of there will be on display. This will be one more reason to go to the old CNJ. I for one would love to see their ex CNJ GP-7, Lehigh F-7, and B&O E-8 displayed there. If in case the equipment doesn't run then we can put the Reading Caboose and CNJ Obs car there as well.

NJTRailfan wrote:I for one would love to see their ex CNJ GP-7, Lehigh F-7, and B&O E-8 displayed there. If in case the equipment doesn't run then we can put the Reading Caboose and CNJ Obs car there as well.

Well, just for the record, there isn't a Lehigh F-7 or B&O E-8 in the URHS collection - they are fakes (or in URHS parlance "replicas"). Somehow I doubt the State of New Jersey would entertain a museum at Liberty State Park full of fakes.

The fakes are better then an area that is crumbling away with a whole lot of nothing. Plus the URHS has the exact type of equipment used and will get it right with the right paint job on the right locos.

Outside of the railfan world there are a lot of rules and regulations for what is acceptable museum practice. Repainting these locomotives into schemes of railroads the URHS likes does not meet any accepted practice - period. Thus, no museum getting public money - local, state or Federal - will be allow to play bid model railroad.

Steamtown is a perfect example. When it was the private Steamtown Foundation they painted everything Lackawanna. Today, all of the equipment is painted for the railroads the equipment was built for. It would be so easy to letter the steam locomotives Lackawanna and most of the general public would be none the wiser - which is precisely why a museum should not do it! If the stuff in a museum is not real, why would anyone go? Even the (self proclaimed) cornerstone of the URHS collection, the NYC "Hickory Creek", has issues. The car was modified during its restoration so that it has one fewer bedroom in order to install a kitchen on the car and to make for two of the remaining bedrooms to be larger. Not a problem for a car owned privately in charter service but a big issue for a museum.

Well, just for the record, there isn't a Lehigh F-7 or B&O E-8 in the URHS collection - they are fakes (or in URHS parlance "replicas"). Somehow I doubt the State of New Jersey would entertain a museum at Liberty State Park full of fakes.

Fake or no fakes, the deal is that the State of New Jersey does not have money for a railroad museum. Today and in the future railroad preservation will be in the hands of volunteers, utilizing earned revenue or contributions, no State money.
Look at what the Maywood Station Museum and the Whippany Railway Museum have accomplished in the past few years.
The NYSWTH&S runs a successful tourist train operation. All these organizations don't rely on any type of public funding.
As for Fakes, the public apparently doesn't care. Railfans don't support railroad museums, or preservation in general. Mom and pop are happy to take the children on a Whippany Railway Museum Santa train, on board Comet I coaches that were never painted in such a scheme, or to ride behind a Chinese 2-8-2 that originally never appeared on the PRR operated Bel-Del. As per those concerned about "Fakes," maybe they should head for the basement and take up model railroading.

The topic is a URHS Museum at the old CNJ Terminal in Jersey City. If you want to debate the URHS restoration practices, please take it up with them directly.

http://www.urhs.org

-otto-

RAHWAYVALLEY wrote:As for Fakes, the public apparently doesn't care. Railfans don't support railroad museums, or preservation in general. Mom and pop are happy to take the children on a Whippany Railway Museum Santa train, on board Comet I coaches that were never painted in such a scheme, or to ride behind a Chinese 2-8-2 that originally never appeared on the PRR operated Bel-Del. As per those concerned about "Fakes," maybe they should head for the basement and take up model railroading.

Oh, please. The exhibits at the Whippany Railway Museum are all accurate and clearly state what they are. Maywood is the same. The Santa train at Whippany is represented as a train ride - they don't try to say it is historic or a recreation of anything. As best as I can tell the Phillipsburg operation sells itself as a train ride not a recreation of anything. They say the operation helps fund historic preservation (what that is or how it relates to the NYS&W is an issue for another thread). Only the URHS has built up a national reputation for playing foot loose and fancy free with historical accuracy - no need to go to the basement, they have taken model railroading full scale. Just because you don't care about historical accuracy doesn't make it ok. If the URHS wants to play big kid model railroading go for it - without public funds! But if they ever occupy State property (CNJ Terminal) it will involve government money and as long as they do they are open to commentary and criticism from those who might have to pay for it with tax dollars.

Steamtown Observer wrote:Outside of the railfan world there are a lot of rules and regulations for what is acceptable museum practice. Repainting these locomotives into schemes of railroads the URHS likes does not meet any accepted practice - period. Thus, no museum getting public money - local, state or Federal - will be allow to play bid model railroad.

Steamtown is a perfect example. When it was the private Steamtown Foundation they painted everything Lackawanna. Today, all of the equipment is painted for the railroads the equipment was built for. It would be so easy to letter the steam locomotives Lackawanna and most of the general public would be none the wiser - which is precisely why a museum should not do it! If the stuff in a museum is not real, why would anyone go? Even the (self proclaimed) cornerstone of the URHS collection, the NYC "Hickory Creek", has issues. The car was modified during its restoration so that it has one fewer bedroom in order to install a kitchen on the car and to make for two of the remaining bedrooms to be larger. Not a problem for a car owned privately in charter service but a big issue for a museum.

It's my recollection that the ex-Lackawanna baggage car on display next to the CNJ Terminal in Liberty State Park is painted as CNJ.

[quote="Otto Vondrak"]The topic is a URHS Museum at the old CNJ Terminal in Jersey City. If you want to debate the URHS restoration practices, please take it up with them directly.

http://www.urhs.org

-otto-[/quote]


All due respect Otto, but the topic is legit. Maybe it deserves it's own thread, but the URHS practices and the practices of many railroad museums is a legit discussion for anyone who wonders why so many railroad museums remain the red-headed step child of the museum community.

Ken W2KB wrote:
It's my recollection that the ex-Lackawanna baggage car on display next to the CNJ Terminal in Liberty State Park is painted as CNJ.

Yep, it is Ken.

The old CNJ terminal would be a great idea for a rail musuem, provided it had at least one track that was connected to outside rail. In this way equipment could be moved by rail into the site, and you have access out of the site as well. (for whatever reason)

However many people here have said that money is one of the main reasons this may never happen. (money for restoration of the train sheds, etc.) Not to mention getting approval to use the site.

So if this site isn't good right now, perhaps one day in the future. In any event, just a thought... what about finding an old abandoned rail yard, that the urhs could aquire, and could be there home base. With an abandoned yard, the society would have full access and not have to share with any active railroad. And also in this way the abandoned yard gets saved too.

Sorry I don't know any abandoned yards around here. But it's just a thought.

airman00 wrote:So if this site isn't good right now, perhaps one day in the future. In any event, just a thought... what about finding an old abandoned rail yard, that the urhs could aquire, and could be there home base. With an abandoned yard, the society would have full access and not have to share with any active railroad. And also in this way the abandoned yard gets saved too.

For an "abandoned yard", here's some candidates. GSA supply depot, Belle Mead. Former Ford plant, Edison. Old Barracks Yard, Trenton.

Although it isn't very big, the yard they are in was rebuilt by NJT yeasr ago for them.

Later!
Mr. Ed

R36 Combine Coach wrote:

airman00 wrote:So if this site isn't good right now, perhaps one day in the future. In any event, just a thought... what about finding an old abandoned rail yard, that the urhs could aquire, and could be there home base. With an abandoned yard, the society would have full access and not have to share with any active railroad. And also in this way the abandoned yard gets saved too.

For an "abandoned yard", here's some candidates. GSA supply depot, Belle Mead. Former Ford plant, Edison. Old Barracks Yard, Trenton.

The land where the former Ford plant resided is far too valuable. URHS would never be able to afford it, and the Conrail yard sits adjacent to a residential neighborhood.

As far as the Barracks yard, you've got to be kidding ... unless you intend to run tourist train complete with gang-related train robberies and drive by shootings as part of the fun.

Here is another idea. Keep the yard at Boonton. It had been rebuilt by NJT and is relatively safe. Try to get something at the CNJ terminal. Which is all the URHS is currently discussing. Although it would be the best place in New Jersey just due to the number of tourists passing its front door, it seems doubtful Liberty State Park or the "Friends of LSP" would allow the full collection to be moved there. They have other plans for the sheds.

On another note, the NYS&W is looking to shed / sell the Greenwood Lake Branch. Perhaps the URHS or some other entity could find a use for it so they actually have someplace of there own to run equipment.....