Home for URHS museum at old CNJ terminal?

In the interest of preserving the URHS Preservation thread, I'm spinning this one off on it's own.

northjerseybuff wrote:On the yahoo message boards, there has been some chatter of the old CNJ terminal as a museum place for NJ. What does the URHS feel for that location? you guys have done an awesome job..would be great if there was a true "home" for all this equipment..I created a group on yahoo. feel free to chime in
also..does the urhs have a yahoogroup set up?

[email protected]

Steve F45 wrote:NJB, i got the same invitation and just joined.

Jeff, someone had emailed the friends of liberty state park about the terminal. They said it would cose upwards of $30 million dollars to repair the sheds because of asbestos in the concrete. Maybe we should start sending out flyers to Donald Trump and Warrent Buffet for donations

northjerseybuff wrote:Looking strictly from a numbers/tourism point of view..is west trenton or somerville going to compete with LSP?

Otto Vondrak wrote:

northjerseybuff wrote:On the yahoo message boards, there has been some chatter of the old CNJ terminal as a museum place for NJ. What does the URHS feel for that location?

Please start a new thread to discuss that topic. This thread is for news and announcements of work parties.

-otto-

Thanks Otto - done.

Ok guys - have at it.

Hmm, didn't it break down as follows:

CNJ Terminal (in Liberty State Park).
Pros:
Location
Existing historical shed will hold lots of eqiupment

Cons:
Salty Sea Air unconductive to long term preservation so Train Shed needs to be enclosed.
No really good rail access to run fan trips.

Neutral:
No matter where you build it, it's gonna cost plenty (unless you build outside of Jersey...Hmm, is that an option? )

I saw this chatter on the Yahoo Groups and largely ignored it. Is this another railfan "what-if?" or was this a serious proposal by the state of New Jersey?? I think we discussed using the CNJ Terminal before, but it was immediately dismissed because we figured any equipment placed there will immediately turn to salt-laden-rust (which I dont entirely believe). So is there an actual proposal on the table?

-otto-

I would prefer to stay in Boonton actually and am largely against moving once again. I hate drving out of the county and my truck hates long trips. Yes I have been in the liberty state park area and have seen the old houses. It would cost alot of URHS money again if we ever moved to that area it would be very hard (for me) to participate in such restoration events. But in the mean time I will enjoy the humble West Boonton yard. That is all I have to say.

The CNJ group sounds like they're trying to make this a real proposal.
As for the salt air..I think its a reality, but after how long will it rust? 15 years? 20? doesn't the equipment need to be fixed up every so often?
And if rust is an issue..I guess the EL MUs going to Hoboken and that mini museum at the refurbished terminal will rust as well??
LSP offers a lot..you can incorporate many modes of transportation..wasn't there even a canal nearby?
Tourism is already there..why not tap into whats already there?

All that crap is already rusting away in Boonton where nobody can appreciate it. Might as well let it rust away in Jersey City where people can see it. Seems like a more fitting home to be in a protected state park then in an unprotected crumby yard in the middle of the woods. Plus, I don't buy the whole salt air eroding it all away. If thats the case, the train sheds at the CNJ Terminal should have collapsed years ago. All the stuff would need is a little TLC now and then and all would be well. A little fresh paint in the right spots can go a long way.

I think a great place would be the roundhouse in Cranford!!!!!

Too bad its in use by the public work department of Cranford, but that would be perfect!!

Either way, I bet its gonna be a long time til we see anything

Jersey city terminal would be great however the amount of cash it would take to secure the Bush Trainsheds would be TREMENDOUS. It would be easier to protect the equipment though in a trainshed like that, as covers would just need to be put over the gap over the tracks.

The salt air is deadly though. The stuff would last but would require constant upkeep. Also, has the CNJ terminal flooded in a good nor-easter? If so, salt water flooding (much much worse than fresh water flooding) would basically ruin any locomotive that could operate (restored or plans of operating restoration) and would require that equipment to be moved out of harms way before every possible flooding event.

Steel oxidizes and rusts and crome pits, etc must faster along the shore than it does inland. How do I know? Ive lived 200 feet from Sandy Hook Bay for my whole life. I know what the salt air does to things, even if they are covered up and "protected" from the elements.

well, for a state so small..the location at LSP makes complete sense. I just wonder what kind of grants need to be found to get the ball rolling? something needs to be done. If I join the URHS can I help out on this project? along with getting excursions going again!

Guys,

I posted the email response from the Friends of the Liberty State Park President. Here is the response in its entirety;

Dear Chris,

A few years ago there was a big statewide and legislature discussion and Philipsburg was chosen for the state's RR museum. The Friends supported that choice as the park's main purpose is to serve as an open space urban park for family recreation and to enjoy the views of Lady Liberty, Ellis Island and the skyline. There are already plenty of tourists coming to park for taking ferries to those national monuments and also tourists coming to Liberty Science Center. The Interior 240 acres is going to be restored as a natural area with nature trails and will draw ecotourists. So most people think that a RR museum is one major tourist thing too many for this park. Also, to restore the Sheds will cost about 30 million (with asbestos in concrete roof). The Friends and no other group has time to raise this kind of money and our state and federal gov't has fiscal problems. There is a basic plan, that hasn't had public hearings yet for the space under Sheds (when eventually they get restored) and it's basically extra space for festivals that happen in the Concourse, a few trains as educational exhibits, history signage, a people mover connection from Sheds to ferry parking lot and perhaps other uses such as green markets, etc.

When the Sheds are restored one day in the future, I hope that perhaps you could help by getting a few trains, but a museum is really one tourist attraction too many for this park. That's my honest view.
Feel free to contact the park Superintendent Josh Osowski at [email protected] or park administrator and chair of the park's Public Advisory Committee, Frank Gallagher at [email protected]
I hope you enjoy the park this year.
Sam
Sam Pesin, president of The Friends of LSP

At 06:29 PM 3/24/2008, you wrote:

Dear Sir,

I am looking to see if your group has ever been contacted by any railroad preservation groups in NJ about the possibility of locating a railroad museum inside the train sheds adjacent to the Jersey Central Terminal? I am not intimately involved with any of the railroad groups but would be willing to gauge interest in locating a museum at the terminal if the FOLSP agree to the concept.

Thank you for your time and response.

Christopher J. Vitz, P.E.
Butler, NJ

As you can see the FOLSP's main focus is on keeping the park green. As Mr. Pesin states he feels the addition of a railroad museum would be "one tourist attraction too many". My personal opinion is what better place to have tourists go to? There would be some cross over between people visiting the park.

Also note almost 700,000 people use the JC terminal annually to access the ferries to Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty. As I stated on the yahoo group these people would be at your doorstep without any advertising. By comparison Steamtown gets about 500,000 visitors per year and the Saint Louis Museum of Transportation 100,000.

Btkspot89,

I understand your point of view, but any JC alternative would be way off in the future, but Boonton, in my opinion, is no place for a museum. IMHO, once real noisy work starts at that facility the people on the hill above the line will surely start to complain. It is acceptable an an interim facility, but not a permanent one.

sullivan1985 wrote:All that crap is already rusting away in Boonton where nobody can appreciate it. Might as well let it rust away in Jersey City where people can see it.

Excuse me? Crap? Please Sullivan we are still just starting up again after getting kicked out of Morristown. Once spring time rolls around and we (the hard working members of the URHS) get out and work more we are going to show lots of TLC to our equipment. Please do not call our equipment "crap" I disagree with that statement and hope you do not mean it like you said it.

I understand that Boonton is not a good place for a museum, every member of the URHS knows that. But as of now the Boonton yard is a good place to work until we find a new place to work, Once again... money something the URHS always needs. Not to mention that once Star Trak moves into the yard our equipment with grants on it (like the Blue NJT 1) will be fixed up by them. I am just simply stating that I enjoy the Boonton yard as a place to start the re birth of the URHS.
Brian

Okay, okay, everyone settle down...

So it appears that there is no formal proposal on the table, and the Friends of the Park are not interested in developing a museum on the CNJ Terminal site.

Now, are we going to sit around and debate all of our favorite sites for a state railroad museum? It's useless banter without a commitment of funds and a timetable from the state.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote: useless banter
-otto-

Otto,

the site is full of useless banter, whats a little more?

Seriously there are possibilities at or adjacent to Liberty State Park that may be viable.

While funding is a huge hurdle, the State Park does have long term plans to restore the train shed regardless of a railroad museum there or not. If the location is viable, wouldn't the NJ RR groups banding together and pushing the idea along with the Friends of Liberty State Park give the project added weight to see it come to life?

Chris

Jtgshu wrote:I think a great place would be the roundhouse in Cranford!!!!!

Too bad its in use by the public work department of Cranford, but that would be perfect!!

I agree JT, I think Cranford would be an excellent choice!

Now now-what would the foaming masses say if they saw a U-Boat in Cranford? Or A GG1?

What a can of worms I opened!!!

Liberty State Park won't happen...........................as a museum site.

There has been some talk about a short excursion loop within the park and possibly an off-property 'museum' / storage area. Personally, I think we'll all be dead and buried before we see that or the restoration of the train shed.

As I said in the other thread: There are other sites under investigation and a committee within the URHS that looks into possible, future sites for a proper NJ transportation heritage museum.

Don't hold your breath, though. The current fiscal / political situation in NJ isn't conducive to a piece of property being given to us for our noble purposes........................... unless we find ourselves a very wealthy, very generous benefactor!

Mr. Trump? are you reading this?

OR more realistically:

Mr. Bennett Levin? would you honor us with your generosity and Philanthropy?

Until then, come out and support our cause to the best of your ability by attending EastRAIL 2008!