Genesis discussion (AMD-103, P40DC, P42DC)

Why are RS-3s relevant? At least compare an LRC power car, it’s not the same generation but at least is more broadly comparable to the Genesis in terms of role and horsepower.

Some F40PHs have ended up in freight operation, being a glorified GP40 after all. In a lot of ways, a P42DC is a miniaturized Dash 9-40BW. On a scale from never to never, how likely is it that Geneses will enter freight or MOW service?

kitn1mcc wrote:the EMD are 2 stroke roots blown motor. they have faster throttle response than a 4 stroke. also the 4 stroke suffers from turbo lag more.

ever see how long an rs-3 loads

EMD F40/GP40 are turbo charged not roots blown. The EMD turbos are different than the GE. GE run off air intake only so they are slow to react until enough air pressure builds up to get them spinning. Alco used the same method which was the main cause of the black smoke on throttle up until the turbos could spin faster. EMD uses a gear driven turbo so it provides immediate air pressure to the power assemblies. After the air pressure reaches a certain speed, a clutch cuts out the gear drive and the EMD turbo runs on air pressure only. It is higher maintenance but provides faster response.

mtuandrew wrote:Some F40PHs have ended up in freight operation, being a glorified GP40 after all. In a lot of ways, a P42DC is a miniaturized Dash 9-40BW. On a scale from never to never, how likely is it that Geneses will enter freight or MOW service?

Next to none.

We're already reaching the twilight for GE's Dash 8 line on North American Class 1's, which were GE's premier freight power when the P40 was first introduced. And while some operators are rebuilding their Dash 9's for continued service, substantial numbers on other lines are well worn and stored and the market is a limited one for them in secondary ownership. Even AC4400CW's may be threatened soon such as the small BNSF fleet that has seen lots of storage time in recent years (Although Union Pacific and CPR have entered into major rebuild programs for their large fleets and the CSX and KCS fleets are keeping busy).

With such a surplus of contemporary GE power that was designed and built for hauling freight, it's difficult to imagine such specialized passenger power being put to such use. Maybe Amtrak could use some as work engines, but even there I doubt there's a need. They seem to be getting along just fine with the power they do have and if they did want new power, it's not difficult to acquire a overhauled MP15 or GP38-2 that would do the job better.

Not every short line can deal with six axle locomotives, so the surplus Dash 8's and Dash 9's aren't a fit for everyone.

I agree it's unlikely to see them move into freight, but there are some lines who will buy anything that's priced right...

FRA has certain restriction on car body locomotives, so a Gennie is not a good choice for a shortline .

Seconded, you will not see the Gennie in freight service. It's a lightweight monocoque body, not designed for hauling tonnage. There are no footboards or ladders to switch from. The gearing is too fast. It's just not meant for anything like freight service. Heck they load slow on a passenger train, imagine a real freight behind one. Or two or three.

Consider the other possibilities:

The definite-no's.
1. Those with domestic sources, IE Russia and Europe
2. Narrow gauge, IE South Africa and Brazil
3. Broad gauge, IE Argentina, Australia, India
4. Recent SC44 buyers, IE Amtrak, Via, Brightline, MARC
5. Recent MPI buyers - GO, MBTA, Sounder, VRE, MARC
6. Recent F125 buyers - Metrolink
7. All electric routes - South Shore, SEPTA, soon Caltrain

The maybes
1. Alaska
2. Steam program backup (Friends of 261 just bought an E9)
3. OCS power for class I

What does that leave you?
ACE, CDOT,

Keep in mind also that once Caltrain goes electric, there will be another 30 diesels on the market. All of them are new or rebuilt since around 2000 and probably pretty gently used compared to the Gennies, which were used hard.

Looks like Sanford and Son might be the real home for a lot of these, and they've earned it to say the least.

Exactly what I’d figure too. Even OCS duty is in the extremely unlikely category for Geneses - the roles are all full with heritage, F40, or simple wide-cab freight units. Alaska Railroad is the same, nothing but freight power for them.

I bet Amtrak could still get some coin for the P42s though, especially the fully-PTC-equipped units. No joke, what about LIRR?

All good points...

Alaska invested in HEP equipped SD70ACe's a few years back, and really doesn't need to replace those anytime soon.

Maybe someone like Iowa Pacific? Grand Canyon RR?

Mexico?...

eolesen wrote:Not every short line can deal with six axle locomotives, so the surplus Dash 8's and Dash 9's aren't a fit for everyone.

Been little market even for the four axle Dash 8's. Norfolk Southern not long ago for example sent scores of B32-8's to scrap since there just wasn't a market. They date from around 1989 at a point when the Dash 8 line was mature and ready for prime time, and aren't much older than the P40's. They also had standard cabs like short lines and regionals prefer and at 3,200 horsepower, had power levels and fuel efficiency more in line with what a short line could take advantage of compared to a fuel guzzling 4,000+ horsepower locomotive.

Short lines? Or do they get plenty of castoffs from Class I’s or leased units?

Excursion?

The lack of demand from shortlines for B32's helps explain why UP donated a couple to museums (both Pomona and IRM got fully operational units, and I believe there was a third given somewhere).

mtuandrew wrote: I bet Amtrak could still get some coin for the P42s though, especially the fully-PTC-equipped units. No joke, what about LIRR?

MTUA: The LIRR could be a possibility for the 700 series dual mode units as a good example.
With only 20 operating DM30 locomotives requiring two each on any through Penn Station
trains they could find a good use there.

They could also put to use some of those PTC equipped units to run alongside their now 20 year
old DE/DM30 locomotives. The big problem that the LIRR has is the limitations of the C3 car fleet.
Without more cars (leased from elsewhere or new multilevel cars) any added locomotives will not
amount to much other then to beef up the fleet.

Tadman brings up interesting points about the limited options for resale of the Genesis units.
This will be the same problem for the LIRR when they finally replace the DE/DM30 locomotive
fleet with limited resale value or interest since they were specially designed passenger units.

The huge difference between these more recent passenger diesels and the older models that
they replaced is that they had specific designs for their service lives and would not be readily
adaptable for future use by freight railroads as past units were. That is the problem that many
of us realize here...
MACTRAXX

no one is even ordering dual modes yet, so your talk of 700 is moot and off topic.

Dutch: I used the 700 series dual modes as an example of where they could eventually go...

With the proposed three agency NYS dual mode locomotive order on indefinite hold any future use
elsewhere is a long way off if at all...Back to the topic...MACTRAXX

I’m also not worried about the Genesis disappearing wholesale within the next ten years, considering there are still ex-Amtrak F40PHs in daily service - some still in as-delivered configuration (the Music City Star units for example.)

Still would like to see a number of P42s go to Altoona for an AC motor/Tier 2 upgrade, since they fill a specialized role unlike any other Dash 8 or Dash 9. I don’t expect any P40s to remain though.