Private equipment collection at Colonie and Glenmont

What's there to negotiate? More time as you desperately try to find money to do it? Sounds like CP's patience has been stretched thin and you guys are hanging on to a thread of hope.

It's never as simple as just going and getting or selling your stuff. There are multiple parties/organizations to coordinate and rules to follow. Don't just assume everybody has just been pissing away their time and neglecting their responsibilities. Some of us do things the right way and that often gets slow and bureaucratic.

I discourage anyone here from jumping to conclusions in regards to this situation. We on this forum as a group tend to speculate far to often.

traingeek8223 wrote:We on this forum as a group tend to speculate far to often.

That's because the people "in the know" are too tight-lipped.

nessman wrote:

traingeek8223 wrote:We on this forum as a group tend to speculate far to often.

That's because the people "in the know" are too tight-lipped.

The "people in the know" have to be tight lipped since the parties that are working directly on this project have asked them to be.

Alcoman wrote:

nessman wrote:

traingeek8223 wrote:We on this forum as a group tend to speculate far to often.

That's because the people "in the know" are too tight-lipped.

The "people in the know" have to be tight lipped since the parties that are working directly on this project have asked them to be.

Again, what's the big secret here? One of 4 things will happen:

1.) status quo - equipment stays and continues to deteriorate (unlikely - CP wants it gone)
2.) equipment gets scrapped on site by CP contractor and preservationists scream bloody murder (most likely)
3.) equipment is moved off-site via rail (unlikely unless someone has deep pockets to move the junk out of the way, reconnect the siding to the main, etc... then repairs trucks, brakes, rigging, etc...)
4.) equipment is moved off-site via truck (unlikely unless someone has *really* deep pockets)

What I am finding most annoying about this whole debate is Nessman's constant harping about it and endless negativity..
whatever will happen will happen, meanwhile, do we really need the doom and gloom update three times a day?
man..give it a rest.

Scot

scottychaos wrote:What I am finding most annoying about this whole debate is Nessman's constant harping about it and endless negativity..
whatever will happen will happen, meanwhile, do we really need the doom and gloom update three times a day?
man..give it a rest.

Scot

Because in the 6 years since this thread began - NOTHING has happened - other than the caboose and boxcar being moved somewhere secret by some mystery man... and that people who "know" don't want to tell.

Hopeless hope and top secrets are why I hate this hobby.

nessman wrote:

scottychaos wrote:What I am finding most annoying about this whole debate is Nessman's constant harping about it and endless negativity..
whatever will happen will happen, meanwhile, do we really need the doom and gloom update three times a day?
man..give it a rest.

Scot

Because in the 6 years since this thread began - NOTHING has happened - other than the caboose and boxcar being moved somewhere secret by some mystery man... and that people who "know" don't want to tell.

Hopeless hope and top secrets are why I hate this hobby.

Then quit following it.
You are the most negative preservation proponent I have ever seen. You are not helping the situation by calling the items "scrap" and the endless Negative comments. Why not try to make change for the better instead of refrain of doom?
Thank You

I would expect the reason no one's saying anything about the equipment that did leave is because someone just went and did it and didn't clear anything through anyone.

When you need to use a crane to move equipment that is on railroad property, or even next to railroad property up to so many feet from active tracks, you need a heavy duty libaility insurance policy in addition to paying for the rigging company to come in and load and move the stuff. An example that I've discussed regarding one passenger car in another location, just moving it across a single track, the expenses are in the $45,000 range.

My bet is the stuff that left was loaded uninsured. So we'll find out where it went and who did it when the statute of limitations on such violations has expired.


As for the stuff that's still there, it's an equal amount of hassle to move it via rail. That equipment would all need FRA waivers of some sort, or a crew to come in and repair the brakes on everything - and anything friction bearing is totally up to CP if they want to move or not.

As for the stuff being abandoned on CP Rail property, there is some precedent for it; the legal owners need to be served and given a due date for removal, after which point the engine becomes property of the railroad. I've also personally seen this happen in another location with someone else's locomotive. In that case, the party did not respond - if owners of these pieces have responded, then that opens up another can of worms.


The bottom line, though, is no matter what happens it's a paperwork trail that has to have all the T's crossed and I's dotted.

Nessman, if you "hate this hobby" maybe you should get out of it.

And its not true "nothing has happened", the FA left. And you don't know what is and isn't happening. Just because you are not in the loop doesn't mean nothing is happening. And out of curiosity, just why do you care so much?

RS

RS-3 wrote:Nessman, if you "hate this hobby" maybe you should get out of it.

And its not true "nothing has happened", the FA left. And you don't know what is and isn't happening. Just because you are not in the loop doesn't mean nothing is happening. And out of curiosity, just why do you care so much?

RS

RS-3, You hit the nail on the head....Great response!

It is plainly evident that the folks in control here (if there are any in control) do not care or at least have no resources to do anything about the situation. I agree with Nessman, the equipment is likely to be scrapped and probably before too much longer. If I were in charge on the CP it would have probably been gone by now. Yes it is a shame for this to happen but the stuff is too far gone for a reasonable restoration and there are more examples of this type equipment preserved by people who really care about it and in decent presentable condition which is lacking here. I can remember equipment in far better condition and much more significant than this being scrapped, anybody remember GTW 5629 or C.B. & Q. 5632?
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:It is plainly evident that the folks in control here (if there are any in control) do not care or at least have no resources to do anything about the situation. I agree with Nessman, the equipment is likely to be scrapped and probably before too much longer. If I were in charge on the CP it would have probably been gone by now. Yes it is a shame for this to happen but the stuff is too far gone for a reasonable restoration and there are more examples of this type equipment preserved by people who really care about it and in decent presentable condition which is lacking here. I can remember equipment in far better condition and much more significant than this being scrapped, anybody remember GTW 5629 or C.B. & Q. 5632?
Noel Weaver

Noel,
Its quite possible that new generations of players, and opportunities may be presenting themselves. Not necessarily the same old figures. Certainly the examples you cite are tragic, and a result of one mans actions. It could be these locomotives are beyond help, I dont know, but nothing is beyond restoration given the resources.
I think the thing I find most odd is your statement that if you were in charge of CP you would have already scrapped them. What I would have expected to hear is that if you were in charge you would have helped find a way to preserve them. I dont get it.

Ford GP wrote:Noel,
Its quite possible that new generations of players, and opportunities may be presenting themselves. Not necessarily the same old figures. Certainly the examples you cite are tragic, and a result of one mans actions. It could be these locomotives are beyond help, I dont know, but nothing is beyond restoration given the resources.
I think the thing I find most odd is your statement that if you were in charge of CP you would have already scrapped them. What I would have expected to hear is that if you were in charge you would have helped find a way to preserve them. I dont get it.

The "new generation" of players have been singing the same song as the old generation - and yet nothing has been done. I can't speak of the stuff that's been removed already since again, that's a top-secret that no one wants to talk about. As has been said before - it will take a LOT of money to save any of that... $45,000 to move one piece by crane to an active siding - even 10 feet away. $45,000 is the scrap value for a locomotive these days.

CP is a business, not a historical society. They have no interest in preservation. Railroads scrap locomotives and rolling stock all the time when they reach the end of their useful lives. Those locomotives and cars are a liability. They're magnets for vandals and thieves - all it takes is for one person to fall off a piece of equipment and wind up crippled and you're talking multi-million dollar lawsuit. They've had at least one hazmat incident with spilled/leaking fuel which was reported to a number of state and federal authorities - that CP had to clean up and drain at their expense. They're standing in the way of a yard expansion. They've sat there for at least 2-3 decades, rent free and from what I gather, no formal agreement.

Yes, if I were in charge of CP, I would have had them scrapped years ago and told the "owners" TFB - go send your lawyers after me... and settle it out for pennies on the dollar for their scrap value. Preserving them does not serve any business purpose... and as a theoretical railroad executive, I could care less about goodwill or PR towards the railfan community. Many railroads have snubbed the railfan community for a reason, many reasons actually. Think about it.

Nessman, you're making blanket statements about CP you can't back up. I'm sorry this subject bothers you so much.