• Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2012

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by scoostraw
 
jmarino wrote:
scoostraw wrote:
jmarino wrote:Question, speaking of the D&U they seem to be holding their own and bounced back from irene , they do something differently than the cmrr or have a different soure of funding or should I not ask , ?
Good question. The answer is that the D&U is fully funded by the communities it serves.

This begs the question as to whether Ulster County deserves (or even wants) a tourist railroad. The CMRR certainly has not gotten anything like the support that the D&U receives. It's hard enough to pursue a project like the CMRR is undertaking. But it's even harder if it seems like you have to force the very idea down the throat of the county which would directly benefit from its fruition.
And my guess is that when conrail took it [ the railroad out of service ] they acted quickly to restore the track, if i recall right they were running to highmount in 83 ? My point is what you said does the county want or ever wanted a tourist railroad ?
The line actually never went to Conrail. Conrail did operate it during a designated 6 month period at the end during which the remaining online customers could transition their business to trucks. The last run was in 1976.

Ulster county did purchase the line (for $1.5 million I believe). The only rational reason for doing so at the time was for its use as a tourist operation.
  by eehiv
 
Many thanks for everyone's support. We have our work cut out for us. Now, back to work....

Friday, October 12th

Our scenic train will be running Friday from 10am to 3pm.


Saturday, October 13th

George Peck will lead a crew to complete the Longyear Siding extension. He will start at Longyear's at 9am.

The scenic train will run from 10am to 3pm. We need as many hands as possible to handle parking and ticketing as this is one of our busiest days of the year.


Sunday, October 14th

George Peck will again lead a crew to complete the Longyear Siding extension. He will start at Longyear's 9am.

The scenic train will run from 10am to 3pm. We need as many hands as possible to help out!


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR
  by RussNelson
 
Makes me wonder if the R2TC has figured out that the cheapest way to create a trail is to rip up the existing railroad, sell the rails and ties, mine the ballast, and use the money to pave or put rock dust down on the trail. Easier than getting a grant to clean up an already-abandoned railroad. You don't have to deal with abutters or NIMBYs, you only have one property owner to deal with, the legality is well-settled, you have a source of funds, and a lot of the candidates for rail-ripping are already publicly owned.
  by Otto Vondrak
 
jmarino wrote:Question, speaking of the D&U they seem to be holding their own and bounced back from irene , they do something differently than the cmrr or have a different soure of funding or should I not ask , ?
From what I understand, a private trust funds the DURR, along with some support from local communities.

Here's an important footnote (I'm gonna get smacked for saying this, too). Ulster County owns the railroad property. The CMRR cannot go out on its own and seek grants and funding or other sources of income. The county must make the application on behalf of the railroad.

-otto-
  by Otto Vondrak
 
RussNelson wrote:Easier than getting a grant to clean up an already-abandoned railroad.
Russ, you're forgetting one very important fact. The Catskill Mountain Branch was never abandoned. After Conrail suspended operations in 1976, the next common carrier to use the rails was CMRR in 1983 (freight service in Kingston). No abandonment was ever filed for this line by Penn Central, Conrail, or any other operator.

-otto-
  by U.V.#200 GE70 Tonner
 
How many online customers were left in 1976 and how many carloads were being shipped per month?
  by jmarino
 
U.V.#200 GE70 Tonner wrote:How many online customers were left in 1976 and how many carloads were being shipped per month?
Dont know how many customers were left at the end I do recaal the last train was about 21 cars up and when they returned i read they hauled out 38 off to the yard in kgn. And i believe all the remaining customers had found other means of delivery
  by jmarino
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:
jmarino wrote:Question, speaking of the D&U they seem to be holding their own and bounced back from irene , they do something differently than the cmrr or have a different soure of funding or should I not ask , ?
From what I understand, a private trust funds the DURR, along with some support from local communities.

Here's an important footnote (I'm gonna get smacked for saying this, too). Ulster County owns the railroad property. The CMRR cannot go out on its own and seek grants and funding or other sources of income. The county must make the application on behalf of the railroad.

-otto-
interesting the county wanted a tourist railroad , but wont help the rr ? and restricts their ability to funds ? and cant accept donations i read earlier so folks need to take alot of rides to generate revenue
  by jmarino
 
eehiv wrote:Many thanks for everyone's support. We have our work cut out for us. Now, back to work....
Your welcome
Friday, October 12th

Our scenic train will be running Friday from 10am to 3pm.


Saturday, October 13th

George Peck will lead a crew to complete the Longyear Siding extension. He will start at Longyear's at 9am.

The scenic train will run from 10am to 3pm. We need as many hands as possible to handle parking and ticketing as this is one of our busiest days of the year.


Sunday, October 14th

George Peck will again lead a crew to complete the Longyear Siding extension. He will start at Longyear's 9am.

The scenic train will run from 10am to 3pm. We need as many hands as possible to help out!


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR
  by airman00
 
Wait I thought I read earlier, some pages back though, that the CMRR could accept donations. By that I mean if an individual wanted to pay for say, a load of ties, they could. If the CMRR is responsible for maintenance of the line, then it really shouldn't matter if someone steps up and offers to pay directly for something.

Now I'm not saying a buy-a-tie program, since I thought that wouldn't be legal under the lease terms, but again if a load of ties cost for example $1,500 and if the CMRR would normally pay for that, then why would it matter if the bill was paid by john Q. public instead. Just a thought, in that perhaps the railfan community could do more than just buy a ticket to help fund the railroad.

Now sorry all, but I don't have much money, however maybe some who does, reads this forum and decides to help out. :)
  by walterconklin
 
Marty Feldner wrote:Sounds like Ulster County Exec Michael Hein has been taking lessons from his neighbor to the south, our very own Orange County Exec (Emperor?) Ed Diana- the master of "Ready, Fire, Aim".
Hello Marty,

I don't understand your remark about County Executive Diana and how the remark is applicable to I assume a rail related issue. Would you please clarify for my benefit? If you believe that going into detail would be too off topic for this thread, please feel free to send me an email or PM.

Thank your time.
  by Otto Vondrak
 
jmarino wrote: And i believe all the remaining customers had found other means of delivery
That was the point of the six-month subsidized service under Conrail. All of the customers online were directed to find other means of transportation and given six months to do so.

-otto-
  by jmarino
 
Otto, I am correct in my thinking the remaining portion of the line from the smith ave to indapendent cement stopped in November of 1979 ?
  by Otto Vondrak
 
jmarino wrote:Otto, I am correct in my thinking the remaining portion of the line from the smith ave to indapendent cement stopped in November of 1979 ?
From what I understand, Ulster County purchased from the Conrail switch on the West Shore in Kingston west to the county line at Highmount (Grand Hotel). Anything east of the West Shore was not included in the purchase, and continued to be operated by Conrail.

-otto-
  by neroden
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:
jmarino wrote:I agree with getting line up and running west from c-9 , however lets make shokan so we have the scenic veiw of mtns and reservoir and we can needed materials and equipment up to replace boiceville tresle, get to shokkan put a run around in and go from there,
Excellent plan (you must have read our progress reports from the last few years).
You might want to publish a 2011 progress report, incidentally. Yeah, I know you're a volunteer too...
How should we go about accomplishing that goal any faster than we've been trying over the last few years? I mean, it's not like folks have been sitting on their hands for the last five years... Every time the railroad advances, it seems Mother Nature has other plans, like a flood, or a slide, or a slide then a flood... or a hurricane... or... well, you get the idea.

-otto-
OK, I see I wasn't blunt enough in my suggestion. Stop *wasting your time* repairing the flood-prone west end of the railroad (over and over again) and get the volunteers over to the EAST end. If there's some reason why the volunteers won't agree to that, why they really really want to work on the Phoenicia end rather than the Kingston end, it's best to know this now, and in that case, you're doomed.

Is that clear enough?
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