Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2012

I have to say this is a shock to read the latest plans by the county , I hope the cmrr doesnt give up , push west from 209 to the boiceville trestle your almost done with C-9, their are way to many rail trails and they cost money also you have to keep trail clear on fallen trees etc , , I wonder why we can use tax payer money to have rail trails ? and not have a tourist railroad to draw in people , maybe when the railroad was purchased by the county some preventive maintanance would have saved the the rail bed until the cmrr took over at least , They have been behind the 8 ball from the start , if you all remember they ran a train down the line in oct of 76 slow as it was I believe Earl pardinni was on that train , I believe the first major damge after the line was put out service was done in 77 or 78 by flooding not sure of exact dates , why didnt the county repair that in a timely fashoin ,If i remember cmrr took over in 1983 ? I read they are waiting for fema moneys yet ???? I will leave that alone! , As far as pushing forward on fixing the trestles great idea but that to takes people and money , I support those who volunteer you folks are great I wish had some spare time to help out , boiceville trestle is a big job I am sure outside help would be needed to get the span up and running in a timely manner as far as a rail trail aloung side of the railroad at any point not a good idea , you dont see csx or amtrax with walkways adjacent to the tracks .even if the cmrr is only running 10 to 15 mph not to safe , I will be following this closely and will probuly stop to see some of the folks at the cmrr , I usaully take a couple of rides in the fall and and on the holiday shuddle I enjoy the ride and its a good way to give some support .oh and its historic and part of what made kingston and the catskills.Let keep rebuilding the old up and down

Otto Vondrak wrote:I'm gonna get smacked for saying this, but I wonder why it's taken so long for the county to process our application for FEMA assistance to make repairs to the railroad for the flooding in 2011... and 2004... and 1988... and...

scoostraw wrote:The CMRR needs to show they can get big things done. Focus on C9 - get the train across ASAP and get press coverage for that. And for God's sake get those junk cars pulled down from 209 and out of public view. These things are maybe even more important than running the shuttle trains at this point. The CMRR does not have 'forever' to make things happen. To the railroad's detractors, 30 years is long enough for the CMRR to show what they can do.

Of course. You have to realize that none of this was made public until a day ago, so we're just as shocked as you are.

-otto-

Ah, now we can guess why they didn't apply for help. There seems to be an agenda at the county level to get rid of your RR.

Pepacton Reservoir has rowboats laid out all around it for people to be able to go out on the water. I guess the idea is so people won't use their own boats, captive boats don't introduce invasive plants or animals.

The rowboats around Pepacton are not for public use, they are privately owned, you have to leave them there , or have them steam cleaned, and provide documentation, every time you take it out, and bring it back. Most guys don't want to deal with it, so they just leave them there.

To get a fishing license for the NYC reservoirs you have to submit an application to the DEP, have a back ground check done, then go and receive it is person from the DEP police barracks, produce the proper ID, etc. Then carry this special license, and have a special parking permit for your car. And the DEP police check, I have been asked to produce my permit more at Cannonsville reservoir, than any other place I have ever fished in New York State!

Some of you might remember the gentleman who where were issued trespass tickets while taking photos of the CMRR equipment in Shokan. They were just railfans taking pictures, but they were on reservoir land.

My point to all this is: There is not a chance in !@#$%^ that NYC is going to let a walking trail go around the Ashokan Reservoir. The day the rails are pulled will be the last day anyone uses the ROW.

Sounds like Ulster County Exec Michael Hein has been taking lessons from his neighbor to the south, our very own Orange County Exec (Emperor?) Ed Diana- the master of "Ready, Fire, Aim".

well they have a lease till 2016 , I dont know all the terms of the lease but I would hope they have till then , but who knows they change the rules to their liking anymore [ polititians ]

Otto Vondrak wrote:

neroden wrote:Get the train extended across C9 sooner rather than later, guys. Track work in Kingston and sidings on the Phoenicia end can wait; you've got to prove to the local government that you're actually heading for Ashokan! That is the only way to stop this nonsense.

lol we keep whipping and beating the volunteers to make them work faster and more often, but to no avail. Also, there's still the issue of repairing the flood damage from Hurricane Irene...

-otto-

lol after the ones that were fired and/or got tee'd off and quit you would think that whippings and beatings might be off the table but maybe not.

The CMRR in assessing it's assets and liabilities has not proven to be one of it's strengths.

Trackwork can wait IF the FRA isn't nipping at your heels. Tell them it can wait. Not with people on those trains.

Looks like the county wants a reason to get rid of the CMRR. I just hope management doesn't make it easier for them. Time will tell.

The folks who support the railroad need to get press support , when irene did so much damage not much was said about the cmrr , no one knew the boiceville trestle was down for some time except for us who follow the line and of course the railroad , and iwas also working in the area and was very aware of all the damage inthe county

You really want to be running a revenue train from Kingston to (at least) West Hurley before your lease runs out. With massive publicity. Even if it requires manual flagging at US 209. And gee whiz, it's a section with minimal flooding risk, and only one minor washout! Should be a lot easier and cheaper to keep in operation than the Phoenicia (excuse me, Mt. Tremper) to Cold Brook line, and probably more popular!

Looking at it as an outside observer, it genuinely seems as if the people running the railroad have had more interest in the west end of the line than the east end for the last 30 years. Which is bizarre, given where the population of the region is, where the biggest attraction along the line is, and therefore where the publicity is to be found.

You knew back in 2006 that you were at risk of trail-conversion attacks. The Kingston Shuttle helped fend them off, but you have to keep expanding the Kingston end in order to fend them off successfully. Politically, it's good to have *some* operation at the Phoenicia end, but expanding it gets you very little politically; whereas running trains from Kingston to Ashokan will kill this trail nonsense pretty effectively.

neroden wrote:You really want to be running a revenue train from Kingston to (at least) West Hurley before your lease runs out.

No matter how hard I beat the volunteers, they don't work any faster. I've even tried screaming at them and calling them names. Still doesn't work. Ideas?

neroden wrote:You knew back in 2006 that you were at risk of trail-conversion attacks. The Kingston Shuttle helped fend them off, but you have to keep expanding the Kingston end in order to fend them off successfully.

All good observations. Why do you think Bridge C9 has been such a priority?



-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:No matter how hard I beat the volunteers, they don't work any faster. I've even tried screaming at them and calling them names. Still doesn't work. Ideas?

Everyone here understands that it is all volunteers Otto. And we got your joke the first time.

The issue really is focus of that volunteer resource. The CMRR probably needs to focus like never before in the hopes of preserving the rail corridor. Too much time has gone by. One can understand the opposition's viewpoint. But that doesn't mean the project can't be saved.

It's tough though when the county owns the railroad, and you're relying on them for help. And at the same time the county puts out a plan for a hiking trail instead. I wish you guys the best of luck.

I agree with getting line up and running west from c-9 , however lets make shokan so we have the scenic veiw of mtns and reservoir and we can needed materials and equipment up to replace boiceville tresle, get to shokkan put a run around in and go from there, you dont have to beat the volunteers , just sell it , these guys have alot of time invested and heart and soul they just need support even if it is just a thanks folks , lets not critisize what was done wroung in the past just move forward , get the press publicity and make contacts at the state and federal level , i can tell you their is a big push on the catskill park and recreation their , get the ear of a state rep and their support and it may get the cmrr some needed support . as far as crossing 209 AND Hurley mtn rd flag it , and 28a , they already have folks on to flag washington ave , 209 is busy but can be done if allowed by dot or as I was once told the railroad has different rules I dont want to offend anyone , Keep the up& down alive

jmarino wrote:I agree with getting line up and running west from c-9 , however lets make shokan so we have the scenic veiw of mtns and reservoir and we can needed materials and equipment up to replace boiceville tresle, get to shokkan put a run around in and go from there,

Excellent plan (you must have read our progress reports from the last few years). How should we go about accomplishing that goal any faster than we've been trying over the last few years? I mean, it's not like folks have been sitting on their hands for the last five years... Every time the railroad advances, it seems Mother Nature has other plans, like a flood, or a slide, or a slide then a flood... or a hurricane... or... well, you get the idea.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:

jmarino wrote:I agree with getting line up and running west from c-9 , however lets make shokan so we have the scenic veiw of mtns and reservoir and we can needed materials and equipment up to replace boiceville tresle, get to shokkan put a run around in and go from there,

Excellent plan (you must have read our progress reports from the last few years). How should we go about accomplishing that goal any faster than we've been trying over the last few years? I mean, it's not like folks have been sitting on their hands for the last five years... Every time the railroad advances, it seems Mother Nature has other plans, like a flood, or a slide, or a slide then a flood... or a hurricane... or... well, you get the idea.

-otto-

I agree otto, mother nature is NOT our allie in advanceing the railroad I spent all of september and last october in shandaken and prattsville , we just to convince the county of that [ mother nature ], I know the guys are working hard I see the the kgn crew out their almost every weekend and even a few weekdays , More volunteers ? they are hard to come bye , the other options cost money , I just hope they dont give up , I believe that when they get up and going past the reservoir revenue would boom , the only thing bigger than that would be the D&U making it down the to Pine Hill , Question, speaking of the D&U they seem to be holding their own and bounced back from irene , they do something differently than the cmrr or have a different soure of funding or should I not ask , ?

jmarino wrote:Question, speaking of the D&U they seem to be holding their own and bounced back from irene , they do something differently than the cmrr or have a different soure of funding or should I not ask , ?

Good question. The answer is that the D&U is fully funded by the communities it serves.

This begs the question as to whether Ulster County deserves (or even wants) a tourist railroad. The CMRR certainly has not gotten anything like the support that the D&U receives. It's hard enough to pursue a project like the CMRR is undertaking. But it's even harder if it seems like you have to force the very idea down the throat of the county which would directly benefit from its fruition.

scoostraw wrote:

jmarino wrote:Question, speaking of the D&U they seem to be holding their own and bounced back from irene , they do something differently than the cmrr or have a different soure of funding or should I not ask , ?

Good question. The answer is that the D&U is fully funded by the communities it serves.

This begs the question as to whether Ulster County deserves (or even wants) a tourist railroad. The CMRR certainly has not gotten anything like the support that the D&U receives. It's hard enough to pursue a project like the CMRR is undertaking. But it's even harder if it seems like you have to force the very idea down the throat of the county which would directly benefit from its fruition.

And my guess is that when conrail took it [ the railroad out of service ] they acted quickly to restore the track, if i recall right they were running to highmount in 83 ? My point is what you said does the county want or ever wanted a tourist railroad ?