Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2012

neroden wrote:You might want to publish a 2011 progress report, incidentally. Yeah, I know you're a volunteer too...

Workin' on it now. We usually release 'em in the fall.

OK, I see I wasn't blunt enough in my suggestion. Stop *wasting your time* repairing the flood-prone west end of the railroad (over and over again) and get the volunteers over to the EAST end. If there's some reason why the volunteers won't agree to that, why they really really want to work on the Phoenicia end rather than the Kingston end, it's best to know this now, and in that case, you're doomed.

Thanks for your suggestion. Unfortunately, the terms of our lease make us responsible for the *entire* railroad property, not just the parts we'd like to see worked on. It's not a matter of choosing Pheonicia over Kingston or the other way around. We have volunteers working at both ends, stabilizing what we have open already and working to repair and reopen new sections, too.

-otto-

neroden wrote:You might want to publish a 2011 progress report, incidentally.

Here is an excerpt from the 2011 Report:

2011 was a year of both achievement and devastation for the CMRR. The year started well, with great progress made towards achieving our long-term goals. This was abruptly stopped on August 28, 2011 when Hurricane Irene struck.

Hurricane Irene damaged our operating section of the railroad in six different places. However, due to our moving equipment out of harm’s way before the storm struck, our damages were mostly confined to track. The railroad resumed operations on September 10, 2012, on a shortened 2-mile segment of undamaged track.

Despite these setbacks, expansion projects resumed at years end, both with the renovation of bridge C9 in Kingston, and the building of a new switch at MP 24.75 in Mt. Tremper...

State of the Railroad in 2011

Prior to Hurricane Irene, the CMRR continued to rebuild its infrastructure between Phoenicia and Cold Brook, replacing about 250 ties from Mt. Tremper to MP 25.8 and undertaking annual repairs at MP 23.3. A major washout at MP 24.53 was fully repaired and a culvert at MP 26.19 was replaced. The crossing west or Campground Curve was also fully rebuilt. Almost 275 bridge timbers were notched in preparation for the renovation of Bridge C9 in Kingston.

On August 28, 2011, Hurricane Irene struck. When the water receded, all our operating equipment was safe as it was moved to Mt. Tremper just before the flood. Areas of damage west of Mt. Tremper included scouring at MP 25.5 and 25.8, a complete washout of track and the embankment at Campground Curve, and scouring of the track from MP 27 through Phoenicia to MP 27.9, and huge washout from there to MP 28. East of Mt. Tremper, MP 23.3 worsened considerably, severe scouring occurred at MP 22.6, and three of the four spans of the Boiceville Trestle were washed away. West of Phoenicia, new washouts occurred at MP 29.1, 31.2, 31.7 to 32, 32.6 to 32.8, and 33.8. The track east of the Boiceville Trestle was unaffected except for lots of downed trees.

On September 10, 2011, the CMRR resumed service from Mt. Tremper to MP 23.4 on a shortened ride with a discounted fare.

Despite the damage, the CMRR opted to continue the renovation of Bridge C9 in Kingston, starting timber replacement late in the year. A new switch was started at MP 24.75 for flood-safe equipment storage as well as the ability to pass our work train around the scenic train on the shortened railroad...

The rest you'll have to wait for... Not too much longer, though!

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:

neroden wrote: OK, I see I wasn't blunt enough in my suggestion. Stop *wasting your time* repairing the flood-prone west end of the railroad (over and over again) and get the volunteers over to the EAST end. If there's some reason why the volunteers won't agree to that, why they really really want to work on the Phoenicia end rather than the Kingston end, it's best to know this now, and in that case, you're doomed.

Thanks for your suggestion. Unfortunately, the terms of our lease make us responsible for the *entire* railroad property, not just the parts we'd like to see worked on. It's not a matter of choosing Pheonicia over Kingston or the other way around. We have volunteers working at both ends, stabilizing what we have open already and working to repair and reopen new sections, too.
-otto-

I believe neroden's point is that rather than dinking around building a switch and storage track on the west end (which has occupied the CMRR's volunteer forces for months now) he is suggesting that in view of recent events that the CMRR focus ALL of its resources on the east end - and put those precious volunteer forces to work rebuilding the track west from C9. Let the longyear siding go for now. While it is a nice thing to have, it is not essential.

His point does have merit I believe. The CMRR is not apparently in danger of losing use of the west end- except maybe to mother nature. The east end's fate on the other hand is less clear now.

Here's what I understand. Different volunteers are working on different projects. And the Longyear Switch is needed to get the work equipment off the main line so the Scenic Train can run unimpeded. Bridge C9 is not being neglected in favor of other projects.

The CMRR has to be good stewards of the *entire* property, washed out or not... If CMRR ceases to put effort forth in all areas, then we fail to meet the obligations of our lease with Ulster County. I'm not sure how much more I can explain that point. We can't stop vigorously protecting all aspects of the railroad operation, including those that are currently out of service.

Hey, I'm just a graphic designer. I sit around with my finger up my nose most of the time, so I can't comment on all aspects of the railroad's volunteer efforts besides what is reported to me.

And if you want to pitch in, Ernie Hunt would be glad to talk to you.

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/volunteer.php

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:Here's what I understand. Different volunteers are working on different projects. And the Longyear Switch is needed to get the work equipment off the main line so the Scenic Train can run unimpeded. Bridge C9 is not being neglected in favor of other projects.

The CMRR has to be good stewards of the *entire* property, washed out or not... If CMRR ceases to put effort forth in all areas, then we fail to meet the obligations of our lease with Ulster County. I'm not sure how much more I can explain that point. We can't stop vigorously protecting all aspects of the railroad operation, including those that are currently out of service.-otto-

I say baloney to that. By your argument Otto, getting that siding built is more important than losing the rest of the railroad to a hiking trail. That's the crux of this discussion.

That siding is not essential. Nobody is going to suddenly forget that the CMRR is on the west end. The argument here is that CMRR is spreading its precious volunteer resources too thin. Neroden is arguing that by focusing ONLY on getting up and running out of Kingston (for now) the railroad can get the most bang for its buck.

Scoostraw, I guess maybe could maybe take ride down there then and maybe give them a
hand? It seems you have a lot of good ideas; your expertise would be beneficial. I would
love to help out, but I'm not currently in position to. Then again, I'm not saying much on this.
Lot of chiefs here!

Give them a hand! Just sayin'!

Charlie

charlie6017 wrote:Scoostraw, I guess maybe could maybe take ride down there then and maybe give them a
hand? It seems you have a lot of good ideas; your expertise would be beneficial. I would
love to help out, but I'm not currently in position to. Then again, I'm not saying much on this.
Lot of chiefs here!

Give them a hand! Just sayin'!

Charlie

Sorry Charlie, but I'm not in a position to help either. Not many people are, which is why the volunteer resource that the CMRR relies on is so precious.

This is a discussion forum. Talk is what it's all about, and I'm a sidewalk superintendent like most others here. You don't have to be directly involved to care about the railroad's success.

Well I'm glad the entire railroad is looked at as one day being fully repaired. Not one inch of that row should be given to the rail trail folks.

To all:

The C9 and Longyear siding projects were determined last year to be a priority and both are largely complete.

The focus of the CMRR's new efforts will be determined by the board. I'll let you all know when we are ready to make an announcment. Thanks for your comments; they will all be added to our internal discussions.

EH

Thursday, October 11, 2012

On Thursday for the charter the Engineer was Al Schoessow. John Prestopino was conductor and Rich Kerimoglu was car attendant.


Friday, October 12, 2012

On Friday the engineer was John Prestopino. Conductor was Neil Isabelle. Ed Winstanley was brakeman, Kathy Isabelle and Dave Hilliard were car attendants. Ticket agent was Thom Johnson.


Saturday, October 13, 2012

Kingston - Railroad ran a special charter on Sat. Oct. 13, John Patane was engineer, Earl Pardini conductor, Mimi Pardini and Karin Vogel decorations and hospitality,Tony Bochinno and Mark Glaser, brakemen.

In Mt. Tremper, Al Schoessow was Engineer, Ray Farrell Conductor, Neil and Kathy Isabelle were trainmen, and Peter Fluchere and gary Lowe were Ticket Agents. George Peck did parking detail until around 14:00 when he had to leave. Al Schoessow helped him in between trains.

George Peck continued work at Longyear siding.


Sunday, October 14, 2012

On Sunday, Al Johnson and Mark Glaser directed parking and assisted the train crew. Walt Otto was Conductor, Tony Bocchino was brakeman, and Al Schossow the Engineer. Earl and Mimi Pardini entertained the crowd at the station before assisting as car attendants. George Bain was ticket agent.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=204104

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=204105

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=204107

George Peck continued work on Longyear Siding.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=204102

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=204103


Ernie Hunt
Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR

scoostraw wrote:I say baloney to that. By your argument Otto, getting that siding built is more important than losing the rest of the railroad to a hiking trail

That's actually not what I said at all. Nothing even close.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:

RussNelson wrote:Easier than getting a grant to clean up an already-abandoned railroad.

Russ, you're forgetting one very important fact. The Catskill Mountain Branch was never abandoned.

I was speaking in the generic sense. Of, oh, say, the Walkill branch, or various parts of the NYO&W (e.g. the one next to the CMRR tracks into Kingston). I think that when people start casting their rail-trail eyes at the CMRR, you should point at the Walkill, saying "hey, you have an existing trail to connect to at the Rondout, and plenty of work to be done in getting there, and once you have it, you can connect to the O&W trail into Kingston. No need to destroy the CMRR."

Otto Vondrak wrote:On September 10, 2011, the CMRR resumed service from Mt. Tremper to MP 23.4 on a shortened ride with a discounted fare.

Suggestion: when you're ready to lengthen the ride again, put out a press release saying "Last Chance to Ride for Cheap!" saying that the ride will be getting longer and the price will be going up, so this is your last chance to ride at the lower rate.

Or maybe do that, and say "We got so much interest last weekend that we decided to run the longer ride at the lower rate for one more weekend."

Or maybe this has already been done and I'm too late.

RussNelson wrote:

Otto Vondrak wrote:

RussNelson wrote:Easier than getting a grant to clean up an already-abandoned railroad.

Russ, you're forgetting one very important fact. The Catskill Mountain Branch was never abandoned.

I was speaking in the generic sense.

Understood, but realize that the legal status of the railroad corridor is very important here. "Abandoned" and "Out of Service" have two very different meanings in the eyes of federal and state regulators.

-otto-

Just a reminder, Halloween Trains are running in Kingston this weekend and next. We are running Saturday AND Sunday:

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/ki_schedules.php

Also, Fall Foliage Trains continue to operate out of Mount Tremper, on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays through October 28.

http://catskillmtrailroad.com/fallfoliage.php

Come out for a ride! We appreciate your support!

-otto-