Consists

Capitol Limited April 14, 1962 (observed at Grand Central Station)

B&O #6
E-7 1441
E-7B 2411
2408
Lounge Silver Spring
Coach (HW) 3557
3619
LW Coach Gary
Martinsburg
New Castle
Dome Coach High Dome
24-8 Slumberland
10-6 Tygart
16-4 Oriole
Kitchen Dorm 1093
Full length Diner 1092
Dome Sleeper Sunlight Dome (the configuration had "something for everyone"
10-6 Muscatuck
10-6 Kokosing
5BR Obs Dana

The lightweight Coaches were from an all-Coach Wash-Chicago train, The Columbian. Both the Dome Coaches and Dome Sleepers were acquired by Amtrak and were used on SP/Amtrak trains. Obs Dana was acquired by Amtrak and assigned to the Broadway Limited. circa 1972.

While I ask resoect for that I am working from hand written documents that now are well over 40 years old, I will endeavor to clarify any reasonable omissions.

Thanks Mr Norman , Where was Grand Central Station ?

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=135632

Grand Central Station was located at Harrison and Wells Sts Chicago, and was used by the Baltimore & Ohio, Soo Line, and Chicago Great Western. Rail operations ceased during 1969, when the B&O started using the C&NW Station on a route out of Chicago that included all four compass directions. SOO and CGW were "out' before the end.

The building was demolished during 1971. To this day, such remains a vacant parcel of land, however a condo project has been built to the South that covers what was the terminal 'throat'.

Wasn't the Dana wrecked in an accident and then scrapped in Amtrak Days?

Dana, along with Metcalf, Wawasee, and Nappanee (B&O on-line communities in Indiana) were acquired by the B&O from the C&O during 1950. Amtrak acquired three of these four cars; Napanee went elsewhere. Their initial assignment was as properly pointed obs lounges on the Broadway Ltd during May '72, however, as noted by Mr. Poshepny, Dana was wrecked during 1973, and so went the assignment of obs to the Broadway.

Nappanee Railfan.net ABPR Archive

It's that time of the month again to dig into the "trove'.

Over at the Amtrak Forum, we have had discussion regarding picking up and setting out passenger cars en route - a practice Amtrak avoids to the fullest extent possible. Here is a consist from the days when railroads routinely did just that.

SRY #38 Crescent Sep 2, 1964 (rode Terminal Station - basement of CNN Tower and Omni Hotel - to "Old" Penn):

SRY E-8
SRY E-7
SRY Hwt RPO 22 - NO-Wash
SRY LW Dorm 710
PRR Susquehanna River (10-6)
SRY York River - NO-NY
Otter River - Atl-NY
PRR Pine Falls 5BR Lng (sub for SRY "Crescent--")
SRY Diner 3312
Potomac River - Greenville-NY
Warrior River - Charlotte-NY
SAL West Palm Beach - Asheville-NY
SRY Piedmont Valley - Winston Salem-NY
AWP Alabama River - Columbia-Wash
SRY Coach 829 - Augusta-Wash
844
827

Added at Wash were cars from the SAL "Palmland". Train was "waiting for time" at all stops; intermediate switching was "just another day at the office".

Mr Norman , what has changed regarding intermediate switching , regulations , labour costs , or just got to hard to organise ?

Probably the biggest problem for Amtrak would be the lack of available yard crews at the the intermediate points. There is also the manpower issues such as what Amtrak employee would hook the set out car to the HEP and for that matter, install or remove the "honey pots'.

Obviously, with The Crescent consist I most recently reported, those were "non-problems" for the Southern Railway.

And by the way, Mr. Norman, thanks for reporting that Crescent consist. brings back memories.

Looks like the "master room crowd" had to do without a shower that night, due to that substitute PRR 5DBR lounge. Too bad for any railfan who was riding it that night precisely to use the shower.

Into the grab bag do we go...

SP #4 Golden State June 9-1962 (observed at LAUPT)

6046 E-8A
5907 E-7B
6057 Alco PA
Bagg 5012
Dorm CRIP 822
Coach SP 2369
CRIP 341 Golden Bell
313 Golden Rod
Grill-Lounge 410 Golden Goblet
Coach 319 Narcissus
312 Waterloo
339 Golden Harp (LA-Mpls)
10-6 Golden Meadow (LA-MPLS)
Diner SP 10207
Lounge SP 2988
10-6 SP 9045

Sleepers (4-4-2, 10-6) added Phoenix (10-6) added Tuscon. There was an Extra Fare required to ride. Extra service....well. Compared with the City - no Extra Fare - it wasn't even in the league. I don't think it did that much "end to end' business, but rather served the intermediate points such as Phoenix, Tuscon, and El Paso. It was advertised as the "low altitude" train and with its highest point en route at Vaughn NM of 5951', possibly it did get some business from those with medical conditions affected by altitude.

Of interest, Tucumcari NM was the operational interchange between RI and SP. However, the RI end of track was at Santa Rosa NM some 40 miles to the West. This was a point lost on me until I rode during Dec 1963, and wondered why my coupon ticket read Santa Rosa.

Live and learn.

What is a "pool " train ? Is it a set of trains set aside for excursions ? . or a set of trains that could turn up on any scheduled service ?

David Benton wrote:What is a "pool " train ? Is it a set of trains set aside for excursions ? . or a set of trains that could turn up on any scheduled service ?

The term Pool can be used in many different contexts within the railroad industry, I think that with respect to our discussion here this is what Mr. Benton has in mind:

On several different routes during the "later years' several roads agreed to treat revenues and expenses of passenger serivce over a given route on a we're all in it together basis. The roads basically made the decision that they no longer wished to compete with one another, but rather cooperate towards a common cause.

There were others, but the two 'pools' that come to mind were Seattle-Portland (GN,NP,UP) and Montreal Toronto (CN, CP). Overseas, there is a Belfast-Dublin (NIR, CIE) pool.

I had occasion to ride these three. On the Seattle Portland pool, it appeared that each road equipped their respective trains; same with Belfast-Dublin. The Montreal Toronto train I rode appeared to have CN Coaches, but CP Parlors and Diner.

However, tickets issued by one road were good on any train operated by others. How revenues and expenses were allocated I know not, being a retired CPA (Chartered Accountant to Mr. Benton), I would have been interested to know. My road, MILW, did not have any pools, even though there were markets in which they could have conceivably been established. But then, shouldn't I properly recuse from questions such as Chi-Mpls; who was best?.

30 years ago this evening I boarded CN #19 in Stellarton, Nova Scotia heading for Chicoutimi, Quebec. Here’s the consists:

CN#19 w/b
Sydney - Truro, Feb 19, 1976

3624 RS18
15413 Steam Generator Unit
8064 Baggage
9617 Baggage
5183 Coach
5482 Coach
751 Café Lounge
5717 Day Niter

CN#11 Scotian w/b
Halifax - Truro, Feb. 19, 1976

6518 FP9A
6628 F9B
6861 FPB4
9650 Baggage
9482 Baggage
5427 Coach
5443 Coach
1366 Diner
2310 Au Courant Lounge
1139 Ennishore Sleeper

In Truro NS #11 & #19 were combined for the run to Montreal

CN#11 Scotian w/b
Truro - Montreal, Feb. 19, 1976

6518 FP9A
6628 F9B
6861 FPB4
9650 Baggage
9482 Baggage
5427 Coach
5443 Coach
5482 Coach
751 Café Lounge
5717 Day Niter
1366 Diner
2310 Au Courant Lounge
1139 Ennishore Sleeper
11051 Express Box Car (on Moncton off Campbellton)
10597 Express Box Car (on Moncton off Campbellton)
10645 Express Box Car (on Moncton off Campbellton)

I was in Coach 5482 from Stellarton to Truro then a Lower Berth in Ennishore from Truro to Montreal.

The next afternoon in Montreal I spent the rush-hour riding CP “Town Trains” including an 11 Unit RDC consist.

CP#248 e/b
Beaconsfield - Windsor Station, Feb. 20, 1976

9022
9300
9308
9057
9302
9068
9054
9051
9309
9306
9303

Then back to Central Station for:

CN #73 n/b
Montreal - Chicoutimi, Feb. 20, 1976

6712 GE Electric*
6714 GE Electric*
6787 FPA4
6636 F9B
9332 Baggage
1815 Allendale 8Sec, 2Comp, 1Dr. HW Sleeper (built 1923)
1087 Cape Breton 2Bdr. 2Comp Buffet Lounge
5227 Coach
5298 Coach (off Arvida)
5187 Coach (off Jonquiere)
5287 Coach (to #75 at Hervey Jct)
431 Dinette (to #75 at Hervey Jct)
1807 Campbellton Sleeper (to #75 at Hervey Jct)

Note: GE Electric Box Cabs 6712 & 6714 hauled #73 Northward from Central Station out through the Mount Royal Tunnel to EJ Tower (5 miles) where they cut off.

From Chicoutimi I took a bus to Quebec City, a CP “Dayliner” to Windsor Station, CP “Town Train” to Dorval then an Eastern Provincial Airways** B-737 to Halifax. Taxi to Elmsdale and home on a CN Railiner.

**Railway Content: EPA was taken over by Canadian Pacific.

This month, let's take a look back at what was then and could still be today the premier long distance rail travel market:

Off season - SB Silver Meteor Sep 15, 1962 (rode NY to Richmond)

GG-1 4904 NY-Wash
RFP E-8 1009 Wash-Rich
1001
SAL E-7 3028 Rich-Stp
3019 Rich-Miami
SAL Dorm 5053 NY-Mia
5BR-2CP-2DR Boca Grande
PRR 10-6 Greenwood
SAL Red Mountain 6BR-Lng (sorry: "--Beach" Sun Lounge shopped)
Diner 6106 NY-Stp
PRR Bradenton NY-Venice (my car) 10-6
SAL Sarasota NY-Stp 10-6
Coach 6218 NY-Stp
6237 NY-Venice
Diner 6114 NY-Mia
RFP Coach 855 NY-Mia
PRR Coach 4067
SAL Obs-Lng 5605

Now for the 'big show' - an "in season' NB East Coast Champion; observed arriving Penn Station Dec 21, 1962 "on time' of course. To my knowledge, entire consist originated Miami with several cars cut at Wash:

GG-1 4876
ACL Coach 212
2369
FEC Diner Fort Drum
Coach Hypoluxo
RFP 811
ACL 207
201
Lounge 252
FEC 10-6 Ormond Beach
ACL 6BR-Lng Sea Island Beach
PRR 4-4-2 Imperial Road
FEC Diner Fort San Marco
PRR 4-4-2 Imperial Lawn
FEC 10-6 Guatamaula
??? 10-6 Niagra County
PRR 10-6 Union City
FEC 10-6 Oriente

(??? my record shows SOU, but they didn't have any "--County' cars)

While it is not a fair comparasion between an in season and an out of season train (remember, the rodent and entourage was indigenous only to Southern California back then) it would appear that, while the Seaboard had an array of specialty cars (and superior Dining service IMHO), Coast Line had what counts - faces in the windows and fannies in the seats!

Mr Laubenheimer, I await and welcome your comments.

I was too young in the 1960s to keep notebooks of consists -- more's the pity. I was 8 in 1960 and 18 in 1970. But I have lots of memories. I rode the Florida trains nearly every winter from 1952 (when I was an infant) to A-Day.

Mr. Norman, both SAL and ACL ran big trains in those days. In season, 21 cars was not unusual. The ACL had twin-unit diners on the "Champion", but SAL had the Sun Lounge on the Meteor, and round-end obs on the Meteor and Star.

The other thing I remember is that SAL would only use Pullman cars that were all stainless steel, so in the winter we'd have lots of cars from Santa Fe and the California Zephyr. The ACL, by contrast, ran anything, and their trains were a dog's breakfast of PRR "Imperial" cars, UP yellow cars, IC cars, L&N cars, even (once) a Nickel Plate sleeper (we were in it, and neither I nor the porter knew what NKP was, nor where it ran). The PRR cars were nice because they had little windows in the upper berths, with sliding shutters. The Imperial cars were all Tuscan red; of course, some PRR cars were stainless steel.

It was always exciting to see the Chicago-Florida trains, since they both (1960s) had domes. We didn't until SCL leased the three dome-sleepers from the B&O in 1968. They replaced really nice sleeper-obs cars (off the Royal Palm) that carried the markers of the Florida Special for several years. Royal Street has been restored for charter. I've been in it, and those were some of the most beautiful cars ever built.

The Florida service was a banquet for railfans right up until A-Day. I remember sitting in the Sun Lounge on one trip in the mid-60s, reading a Newsweek article about the problems of passenger trains, looking around me, and being very confused.

It was wonderful while it lasted. I'll never forgive Amtrak for what they did to the Florida service.