Consists

GBN,

HW Betterment cars on the pool train. WOW!

John

Thank for for the magnaminous comments, Mr Haithcoat. Here's the reward:

SP#9 Shasta Daylight June 3, 1962

Alco PA 6029
PB 5921
PA 6034
Baggage 6645
Coach (large window) 2390
2384
2394
3 unit articulated Diner 10262
10263
10264
Coach 2382
Dome Lounge 3605
Parlor Obs (older Daylight stock) 2283

I rode this Portland to Oakland. Refer to my "Bum Rap' topic elsewhere at this Forum for additional thoughts on SP passenger service.

A safe assumption is that had The Shasta survived into the Amtrak era by some fiat or other assorted dictum, the consist would comprise at best two Amcoaches and an Amcafe. If the consist would not have been enough to "turn 'em away", the reservation system would surely do so.

What doth we pull from the 'grab bag' today?

MILW #5 Morning Hiawatha Jan 2, 1962; rode Chi-Milw (CNS&M for the return):

E-8 32A
F-7 95B
F-7 99A
Box Express 1638
1649
Mail 2152
Baggage 4100
Express1102
1108
Coach 545
414
469
471
416
462
Super Dome 51
Diner 125
Skytop Dell Rapids

For our Rock Island fans:

CRIP #7 Rocky Mountain Rocket observed @ LaSalle Street May 28, 1962

E8A 644
E7B 750 (a B unit with a cab)
E8A 649
Mail RPO 936 to Denver
Baggage 963 to CoSpg
Coach 326 Dalles
Lounge 376 Pike's Peak
Coach 336 Mason City to Denver
Coach 361 Spirit Lake
Diner 426 Golden Repast
Sleeper 640 Granger
Sleeper 631 The Broadmoor
Parlor 456 Kam Valley to DesM
Baggage 4232

I never rode The Rock overnight; judging however from several day trips, I think it would have been a night without much sleep.

We go North of the Border for a view of a "pre-initiative", "pre-image makeover" Canadian National #1, the Super Continental that I rode August 17, 1963 Montreal to Ottawa:

FP-7 5644
B 5645
5646
Bagg 9053
Coach 5564
Diner 433
24 Dx Tourist Irving
14 Sec Tourist 2253
Parlor Buffet Chephron
4Sec 4BR 8Dx Extew
Parlor Diner Babine Lake
5431 Coach
5289 Coach
Parlor Lake Leonore

I believe the last four cars were set off at Ottawa; I rode in Babine Lake.

Another Holiday season consist; this was after the UP had combined the City of LA and City of SF during the 'low" seasons, but, during high season, operated the Sleepers and Coaches as separate trains Chi-Ogden:

MILW 1-103 Jan 2, 1963 (rode: Chi-Marion, IA)

4 UP E-9 units
Bagg SP 5760 Chi-Oak
SP 5003
UP Mail 6320 Chi-LA
Dorm 6089
10-6 Pacific Range
Pacific Bay
11BR Placid Meadow
5BR-2DR-2Cp Ocean Scene
Dome Diner 8004
Dome Lounge 9002
4-4-2 Imperial Band
NYC 4-4-2 International Bridge Chi-Oak
SP Imperial Cape
UP Pacific Guard
SP 10-6 9042

A final thought: what should have the 'Imperial Band' struck up as the patrons boarded for two days of superlative care (I aint kiddin', younger fans) by Uncle Pete? How about the Blake/Parry anthem "The Feet of Jerusalem'? (part of the "Chariots of Fire" music score).

• Riding on the City of New Orleans,
  Illinois Central Monday morning rail
  Fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders,
  Three conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail

IC #2 May 27, 1962 (rode: Champaign-Chi)

E-8 4025
4106B
4030
Bagg 405
Dorm 1906
Coach 2012 Carrondolet
2614 Barrone
2626
2624 Pontalba
Buffet 3335 Grant Park
Coach 2506
2695
2600
Diner 4137
Coach 2602 Hibiscus
2689
2501
2610 Chartres
Obs Lounge 3307

The de-facto Jim Crow line was at the Diner.

Here’s a description of the switching operation that took place in Brockville, Ontario in 1983. This is where the line down from Smiths Falls (and Ottawa) meets the Toronto - Montreal corridor.

(Note the “Canadian” cars in the second consist: Between November 1981 and June 1985, through cars from Vancouver to Montreal were handled in a Corridor train on the Kingston Subdivision east of Toronto)

VIA still separates/combines trains at Brockville. (In the yard west of the station) But today it’s a much simpler task: Trains operate: Engine + Cars + Engine + Cars and are just coupled between the last car of first train and the engine of the second train. Occasionally the first train will have an engine on the front and rear and you will see two P42s, nose to nose at mid-train. An Interesting sight especially at 95+ mph!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

VIA #53 Lakeshore #43 Capital

6530 FP9A (Mont-Tor)
6627 FP9B (Mont-Tor)
9664 Baggage (Mont-Tor)
5534 Coach (Mont-Tor)
3037 Cafe Coach (Mont-Tor)
3208 Snack Coach (Ott-Tor)
5653 Coach (Ott-Tor)
Club de la Garnison (Ott-Tor)

#53 Lakeshore (Montreal to Toronto) arrives first on the main track. #43 Capital (Ottawa to Toronto) arrives next and proceeds into the rear CP station track (platform is still there but the track area is now a parking lot). A waiting CN engine then removes the thru cars from #43 and places them on the rear of #53.

Power from #43 is turned to become power for #44

3119 RS18 (Ott-Brockville)
15468 Steam Generator Unit (Ott-Brockville)

*********************************************************

#2 Canadian, #44 Capital, #54 Lakeshore

6760 FPA4 (Tor-Mont)
6868 FPB4 (Tor-Mont)
607 Baggage (Vancouver-Mont)
Club Laurier (Tor-Ott)
3215 Snack Coach (Tor-Ott)
5487 Coach (Tor-Ott)
5603 Coach (Tor-Mont)
5529 Coach (Tor-Mont)
111 Coach (Vancouver-Mont)
512 Skyline Dome Coffee Shop (Vancouver-Mont)
Chateau LaSalle (Vancouver-Mont)
Banff Park (Vancouver-Mont)

#2, #44, #54 Combined arrives on the main track. Power on #54 pulls forward separating between cars 5487 and 5603, places the Ottawa cars on the rear CP station track then returns and couples to 5603. Departs for Montreal. Power for #44 which had been waiting in the clear, couples to the Ottawa cars on the rear station track and departs for Ottawa.

At Ottawa, #44 (minus Club car) becomes #36 to Montreal.

For you, Mr. Haithcoat

C&EI #59 Humming Bird/Georgian Sep 24, 1962 (rode Chi-Danville)

C&EI FP-7
F-7B
FP-7
C&EI Mail 106
L&N Bagg Dorm 1598 Atlanta
6-4-6 Sleeper Green Pine
4-4-5-1 Florida Sunset
Coach 2535
C&EI Coach 459
469
Diner 506
Lounge 606
Coach 475 New Orleans
480
470
L&N 3213
6-4-6 Plantantion Pine
6-4-6 White Pine
10-6 Green River Nashville

Somebody at the L&N had to be an arborist, but for me even after my many many trips South over the years, "youv'e seen one pine tree, you've seen 'em all".

Thanks,Mr. Norman for the above Georgian/Humming Bird.

Speaking of the 29 "pine" sleepers, one of them is on display at the Tennessee Valley Railroad musuem in my hometown of Chattanooga.

It is "Chickamauga Pine" and I know it definately ran on the Georgian, as it is an NC&STL car.

I still visit family in Chattanooga, and you can be sure Chckamauga Pine is part of that family!!

A "doubleheader" this month. Obviously neither the trains, or for that matter in this case, the routes, and venue at which observed no longer exist.

#30 Spirit of St Louis Aug 18, 1962 - observed at "Old Penn"

GG1 4878
SRY 531
PRR Coach 4111
4114
4116
4280
Kitchen 4595
Diner 4594
10-6 Cascade Meadow
6BR-Lng Colonial Flags
10-6 Ohio Rapids
10-6 James O'Hara

#4 Penn Texas "same time same channel'

GG1 4926
PRR 6514 RPO
6110 Bagg
Coach P-70 1760
Coach 4267
4154
4159
4076
Diner 4520
6BR Lng Elm Falls
10-6 MP Eagle Beam
12Dx-4BR Clear Creek
10-6 Green Rapids
Coach 4150 Indpls-Chi
10-6 Little Miami Rapids
10-6 Chartkas Creek

Mr. Norman ... these are very interesting consists. A lot of rare equipment listed here. However, I feel it necessary to add some additional information here, as well as question a few items listed.

#30

SRY 531 (? - no lightweight with this # - presumed some heavyweight head-end car)
PRR Coach 4111 PRR shops 44-seat coach 1947
4114 PRR shops 44-seat coach 1947
4116 PRR shops 44-seat coach 1947
4280 (? - no lightweight with this # - perhaps 4080 - ACF 44-seat coach 1947 or some heavyweight lounge)
Kitchen 4595 ACF kitchen dormitory 1948-1949
Diner 4594 ACF 68-seat diner 1948-1949
10-6 Cascade Meadow PS 10rmt-5dbr 1940
6BR-Lng Colonial Flags PS 3dbr-1dr 1949
10-6 Ohio Rapids ACF 10rmt-6dbr
10-6 James O'Hara PS 10rmt-6dbr/4140 1948-1949

The above consist included the rare ACF twin-unit diners. At this time, usually the diner and 1-2 sleepers ran only between Indianapolis & NYP.

#4

PRR 6514 RPO heavyweight ?
6110 Bagg heavyweight ?
Coach P-70 1760 heavyweight ?
Coach 4267 (? - no lightweight with this # - perhaps 4067 - BUDD 52-seat coach 1947)
4154 PRR shops 44-seat coach 1947
4159 PRR shops 44-seat coach 1947
4076 ACF 44-seat coach 1947
Diner 4520 BUDD 48-seat diner 1949
6BR Lng Elm Falls PS 6dbr-buffet lounge 1939
10-6 MP Eagle Beam (? - no lightweight with this name - perhaps T&P Eagle Beach or MP Eagle Dam PS 14rmt-4dbr 1948)
12Dx-4BR Clear Creek PS 12dplxsr-4dbr 1949
10-6 Green Rapids ACF 10rmt-6dbr 1949
Coach 4150 Indpls-Chi PRR shops 44-seat coach 1947
10-6 Little Miami Rapids PS 10rmt-6dbr/4129 1949
10-6 Chartkas Creek (? - no lightweight with this name - perhaps Chartiers Creek - PS 12dplxsr-4dbr 1949)

Typically, #4 carried the cars of the CINCINNATI LIMITED at this time. Hence, the rear coach and 2 sleepers joined the remainder of the consist in Columbus. An additional sleeper (or two) may have been picked up in Indianapolis. #4's diner usually ran the whole distance from Stl to NYP. However, it is strange to see only a 48-seat diner on #4, compared to the 68-seat diner on #30; especially in light of the additional coach and sleeper capacity listed on #4!

Most PS 10rmt-6dbrs were built to plan 4140; the exceptions were C&O (and those it disposed of), NYC & one group of PRRs. The 4140 plan had the standard bedrooms, with a room with a sofa alternating with a room with a sofa-seat and one chair. The plan 4129 sleepers (also found on the ERIE) had bedrooms with NO sofas or sofa-seats, but 2 chairs. This type of bedroom was also found in the PRR post-war HARBOR, COLONIAL, FALLS & VIEW series of sleepers, as well as the C&O 10rmt-6dbrs and 11dbrs.

To my knowledge, the only car listed above that made it to AMTRAK was (surprisingly) CASCADE MEADOW, a pre-war 10rmt-5dbr sleeper with open hoppers in the bedrooms! It never ran for AMTRAK, but was used for spare parts.

The MP/T&P sleeper on #4 probably originated in Houston on the TEXAS EAGLE.

Thanks for the great information. I have MANY early AMTRAK consists ... I just have to find them. I'll post them as I run across them.

Mr. Laubenheimer--.

My principal reference for cars is my file of "Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment" augumented by references such as Wayner's "Car Names Numbers and Consists"

My presumption to date with my monthly postings (I was quite the copious scribbler 40+ years ago) is that anyone so interested has access to the publications noted. Otherwise, I guess the consists are simply a pile of numbers.

I'll get out my magnifying glass and see what I can do with my notes.

But I thank you for you elaboration; feel free to help out on any others I post.

My WAYNER books have long since disintegrated. I am using a number of sources; but, principally, STREAMLINER CARS V1 (PS), V2 (Budd) and V3 (ACF and other builders). These are 1981-1982 vintage, by W. David Randall, from RPC Publications. These do not appear to have ISBN numbers. Most of these publications have become hard to find. A little info here and there, but most is not as assembled as in SOME/MORE CLASSIC TRAINS and the WAYNER pubs.

Wayner resource? "priceless' {OK Master Charge Credit Card, you got a free product placement here )

Mr. Laubenheimer; I safeguard my Wayner material to the same extent that I safeguard TRAINS Vol I #1 et omnis seq. The disposition of both is provided for in my Will.

I have now had the opportunity to review source material. I'll have to accept that the 12DX-4BR observed was likely Chartes Creek, however, regarding Eagle Beam, the Official Register shows a PRR owned Eagle Beam, an ACF 10-6. Huron. Mahoning. and Mississippi Rapids were similar cars in PRR livery.