Amtrak Grade Crossing Safety

Everyone: Interesting news concerning the looming passport requirements to cross the US-Canada border-if these restrictions go into effect on June 1st as noted traveling across the border will become a colossal problem until we all get used to the new rules.

Trains like the Adirondack and Pacific International-since they run closed to their Canadian destinations should fare OK but trains like the Maple Leaf could be greatly affected by these rules-making the Customs inspections more of a hassle and perhaps driving away riders because of huge delays or maybe even ending service like this altogether...

If anyone knows if these restrictions will indeed be effective on June 1st please make note of it here. Thanks in advance-MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone: Interesting news concerning the looming passport requirements to cross the US-Canada border-if these restrictions go into effect on June 1st as noted traveling across the border will become a colossal problem until we all get used to the new rules.

Trains like the Adirondack and Pacific International-since they run closed to their Canadian destinations should fare OK but trains like the Maple Leaf could be greatly affected by these rules-making the Customs inspections more of a hassle and perhaps driving away riders because of huge delays or maybe even ending service like this altogether...

If anyone knows if these restrictions will indeed be effective on June 1st please make note of it here. Thanks in advance-MACTRAXX

How so? Passports make the customs officer* job much more easier for verification on mass transportation and in the case of the Maple Leaf, I can guarantee there would be less issues from questionable documentation.

*they are not border guards...sorry a pet peeve.

Skelly: I agree-having good ID for Customs inspection helps here - I am hoping that valid ID like NYS's Enhanced License will still be good for crossing the US-Canada border
SEE: www.nysdmv.com/edl-main.htm for more info on this - but until we all get used to the US-Canada border not being so open as it once was crossing the border for some will be a problem knowing about and understanding the historic ties between the USA and Canada. There could be victims here-like thru operation of the Maple Leaf-because of long delays and bureaucracy. I would like to see it be as seemless as possible but I now realize those days could be gone for good. The US-Canada border-once one of the World's friendliest-is not so friendly anymore. MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:Skelly: I agree-having good ID for Customs inspection helps here - I am hoping that valid ID like NYS's Enhanced License will still be good for crossing the US-Canada border
SEE: http://www.nysdmv.com/edl-main.htm for more info on this - but until we all get used to the US-Canada border not being so open as it once was crossing the border for some will be a problem knowing about and understanding the historic ties between the USA and Canada. There could be victims here-like thru operation of the Maple Leaf-because of long delays and bureaucracy. I would like to see it be as seemless as possible but I now realize those days could be gone for good. The US-Canada border-once one of the World's friendliest-is not so friendly anymore. MACTRAXX

I'm not following here what long delays will occur because since Amtrak operates transborder train service, they are subject to providing US CBP and CBSA advance information via the Advance Passenger Information System.

This requires upon making a reservation either online, over the phone or at a station your passport number, EDL number or passport card number. If you don't have any of those or try to enter in your NON-ENHANCED DL , you are refused to complete the reservation. So you won't be able to get anywhere near the Maple Leaf or any transborder service for that matter.

AgentSkelly wrote:

MACTRAXX wrote:Skelly: I agree-having good ID for Customs inspection helps here - I am hoping that valid ID like NYS's Enhanced License will still be good for crossing the US-Canada border
SEE: http://www.nysdmv.com/edl-main.htm for more info on this - but until we all get used to the US-Canada border not being so open as it once was crossing the border for some will be a problem knowing about and understanding the historic ties between the USA and Canada. There could be victims here-like thru operation of the Maple Leaf-because of long delays and bureaucracy. I would like to see it be as seemless as possible but I now realize those days could be gone for good. The US-Canada border-once one of the World's friendliest-is not so friendly anymore. MACTRAXX

I'm not following here what long delays will occur because since Amtrak operates transborder train service, they are subject to providing US CBP and CBSA advance information via the Advance Passenger Information System.

This requires upon making a reservation either online, over the phone or at a station your passport number, EDL number or passport card number. If you don't have any of those or try to enter in your NON-ENHANCED DL , you are refused to complete the reservation. So you won't be able to get anywhere near the Maple Leaf or any transborder service for that matter.

Agree. I can't see how this is going to make much if any difference and it may actually make it quicker. The sky is not falling.

It was just announced this morning on the news that only 2 states enhanced drivers licenses will be accepted at the border Michigan & Washington and only one Provence in Canada Quebec. Any other states or Provence ID card(license) will be at least a year away from being accepted. I have traveled rigorously back and forward from the US to Canada and as for train travel this will in my opinion only help to stifle off the traffic. Did no one here notice that once a passport was need to fly from the US to Canada the airlines saw a large decrease in revenue from trips in the 500 miles distance range. It just proved people rather drive or take any other forms of transportation to cross the US/Canada border due to not wanting to deal with the new restrictions in the air. However that in turn has now backfired as the US state department took notice and now wants ground transportation to require a passport as well ( cant win em all).

So if this is to be It will in turn hurt Amtrak/VIA rail cross border traffic maybe not so much the Cascades but definitely the Maple leaf and Adirondack. If I have to go through the same hassle of needing a passport to cross by train then there's no benefit over flying. Also Canadians don't have the options of a passport card like we do so we can kind of skate by on a $45 card but Canadians will have to fork over the $200 for a full passport( doesn't seem fair does it?) this new requirement will warrant export checks on all trains leaving the US so it will definitely increase travel time. Also the manifest that both countries send to each other currently does not include any passport or personal information just your name you provided and birthday ( its against a bunch of rules and regulations for that classified information to be process any where but at the border). So you can still be red flagged as your name maybe similar to someone on there watch list. There is no difference, it will just be easier to verify you are not there wanted person when they check your passport.

If a proper verified pre-screening could be guaranteed then by all means its a benefit as the train would need no time at the border for customs unless of an emergency or verified terrorist on board, however that's decades off, and countries away(Europe). I hope this passport requirement is pushed back substantially until both countries can come up with a proper and affordable passcard ( like in the $25 USD, $50 CAD range) one that can be submitted & processed at your local DMV for ground border traffic, air travel can keep there full passport requirements, I'll keep my feet planted on the ground.

Admittedly an off-topic comment, and I'm sure to the chagrin of the Orwellians around here, there could well be a National photo-ID on the horizon. This card will have embedded within it, if granted 1) privileges to exit the country afforded by a Passport, 2) privileges to operate a motor vehicle afforded by a Driver's License, 3) evidence of one's RIGHT to vote, and 4) evidence of enrollment with government sponsored retirement and health plans.

Won't Big Brother be a happy camper - just think of all the other good stuff that could be embedded within such - a GPS tracker, anyone?

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Admittedly an off-topic comment, and I'm sure to the chagrin of the Orwellians around here, there could well be a National photo-ID on the horizon. This card will have embedded within it, if granted 1) privileges to exit the country afforded by a Passport, 2) privileges to operate a motor vehicle afforded by a Driver's License, 3) evidence of one's RIGHT to vote, and 4) evidence of enrollment with government sponsored retirement and health plans.

Won't Big Brother be a happy camper - just think of all the other good stuff that could be embedded within such - a GPS tracker, anyone?

The British one would include National Health Service data, enabling any Accident and Emergency department to know how to treat one.
However, it may be too expensive to bring in.

On my two eastbound trips on the LWL, two years ago and late March this year, Border Patrol agents boarded the train at Buffalo Depew. On the more recent trip, the train was delayed for well over 30 minutes while the inspection was taking place. This on a train that does not cross the border.

buddah wrote: So if this is to be It will in turn hurt Amtrak/VIA rail cross border traffic maybe not so much the Cascades but definitely the Maple leaf and Adirondack. If I have to go through the same hassle of needing a passport to cross by train then there's no benefit over flying. Also Canadians don't have the options of a passport card like we do so we can kind of skate by on a $45 card but Canadians will have to fork over the $200 for a full passport( doesn't seem fair does it?) this new requirement will warrant export checks on all trains leaving the US so it will definitely increase travel time. Also the manifest that both countries send to each other currently does not include any passport or personal information just your name you provided and birthday ( its against a bunch of rules and regulations for that classified information to be process any where but at the border). So you can still be red flagged as your name maybe similar to someone on there watch list. There is no difference, it will just be easier to verify you are not there wanted person when they check your passport.

Actually, the manifest DOES have that information and they are required to by both US and Federal law to provide so the information goes into APIS. The printed manifest that you see the VIA and Amtrak crew does not show it, but if you pull up ARROW or RESERVIA it does show your passport number since like I previously mentioned, its needed for APIS. The passport number is sent to both US CBP and CBSA electronically from both systems.

And no, it will not warrant export checks. I dunno why you think think that, but a passport will be asked and verified at check-in (or on-board) so its verified you have one that matches your name, much like with airlines when flying international.

And yes, it doesn't seem fair, but Canada unfortunately, decided not to develop a passport card. Write a letter to your MP.

AgentSkelly wrote: Actually, the manifest DOES have that information and they are required to by both US and Federal law to provide so the information goes into APIS. The printed manifest that you see the VIA and Amtrak crew does not show it, but if you pull up ARROW or RESERVIA it does show your passport number since like I previously mentioned, its needed for APIS. The passport number is sent to both US CBP and CBSA electronically from both systems.

And yes, it doesn't seem fair, but Canada unfortunately, decided not to develop a passport card. Write a letter to your MP.

I hear you Agent, but untrue to contrary belief APIS is not in full use for ground transportation, However I do believe that come june 1st. it will be, Proof there have been times recently when I completed the Reservia and Amtrak Arrow system and when it says input ID number I have put in "NA" and booked my ticket, the only thing required is the type of identification proof you are going to use( my US passport expired so I use my birth certificate and FL drivers license) now I have to renew. When you travel by Greyhound they don't ask you anything except " do you have ID,OK", Another reason why cross border train travel is getting the shaft. APIS is currently in full operation for AIR travel.

PS why would I write a letter to my MP, I'm not Canadian..lol.. just so you know Im (US BORN CITIZEN/CANADIAN RESIDENT) The local MP would ask "what the H$LL does this guy want?" Canada does have a PR card and wanted to upgrade it, but the US said no and asked for an entirely new card system( IE like our passport card), I guess Canada just said screw it.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Admittedly an off-topic comment, and I'm sure to the chagrin of the Orwellians around here, there could well be a National photo-ID on the horizon. This card will have embedded within it, if granted 1) privileges to exit the country afforded by a Passport, 2) privileges to operate a motor vehicle afforded by a Driver's License, 3) evidence of one's RIGHT to vote, and 4) evidence of enrollment with government sponsored retirement and health plans.
Won't Big Brother be a happy camper - just think of all the other good stuff that could be embedded within such - a GPS tracker, anyone?

Mr Norman although off topic a bit its relevant, its a great Idea, however as Ive been here and found out what the cost is for some of these Canadian ID's, id rethink that. Reason I still carry my US DL instead of an Ontario DL I'll be forking out $200.00 up front !!! My insurance will go through the roof as they allow US citizens ,drivers with over 3 yrs experience to exchange ours DL for one of there's and not take a road test, However no matter what you are considered a "NEW DRIVER" under there regulations. My 10 plus years of accident free driving well over 500k miles means nothing. Id be paying the same rate as a 16 year old who just got there license ( just ridiculous!). My cousin is Canadian only 3 months younger than me, and when his license expired he went back to renew and had to do all the road test over and pay all the fees which for him is the same $200 for G1/G2 and the $40 road test fee. Then when you go for your full G its another $40. at least I just fork out $200 one time and get the full G period. You want an enhanced Ontario DL that's another $40 and its NOT fully accepted yet by the US border (Said to be soon). Yes there's a free health care system here but the Health card is another $50 per year. Also the PR card I mentioned earlier is around $100, and the Canadian passport is $200. So not only will big brother be a happy camper by tracking you, he's made a fortune off you!

buddah wrote: ........Also the PR card I mentioned earlier is around $100, and the Canadian passport is $200. So not only will big brother be a happy camper by tracking you, he's made a fortune off you!

You are way off on the fees you are quoting here: A new standard 24 page Canadian Passport is $87.00.

http://www.ppt.gc.ca/cdn/section6.aspx?lang=eng

http://www.drivetest.ca/en/license/Fee.aspx

Wow, there's a lot of misinformation here.

-Yes, as NS VIA FAN has mentioned, Passport Canada's fee is under $100. I have a friend at Passport Canada who always laughs at how much US passports cost compared to theirs.

-Canada does not at the moment have their own PASScard (aka the passport card) like the US does. Buddah, I think you might be thinking of the NEXUS pass which is for frequent travelers and that fee is $50 USD. I dunno who or what is charging you $100, but I am inclined to see your source on that.

-Amtrak has been participating in APIS in full since 2005. Amtrak did so voluntary actually after the recommendation from the 9/11 Commission which not only recommended that Amtrak hop in, but also bus carriers.

-Now, Greyhound skirts around the use of APIS; basically if they do use it, they kind of have to acknowledge that their tickets guarantee a seat which has been a major legal issue for them. Hence, they don't volunteer for APIS and just present the manifest upon arrival to the customs checkpoint like in the old days. Peter Pan, the remains of the old Trailways system, CoachUSA/Canada I know do participate in APIS. And actually when I have taken Greyhound across the border, the driver asked for ID when getting on every time.

-Buddah, you are still entitled to write your MP as you do reside in Canada. Also, I'm a bit puzzled as why you typed "NA" when you could of done the proper thing of selecting drivers license and input your number. I bet you that when you checked in for that train, the station agent changed the ID number on file too. But that option is gone now.

BTW, here is what Amtrak sends to APIS. This is apparently sent at least 60 minutes prior to the arrival to the border.

Hello friends

First to my friend NSVIA yes you can get the passport for "as low as" $87.00 dollars now, but Im talking in general as I had a family member go through this just a year ago. pay the fee of $92 for the passport then you have to pay the $25 consultation fee ( its included afterwords as I found out), then do you really want to wait 3-6 PLUS months to get your passport? Sorry we didn't have that time as we had a wedding to go to in NYC so he needed it in 2 weeks or less so add in the $70 for express service, could have got the $30 option but don't trust it, OOOHHH plus the 13% GST /PST tax.. In general around the $200 range.
All can be found from the website YOU provided
Drivers license again First $125.00 for your G1 which in the US means your permit. Then go back for your G2 $75.00 "US equivalent" drivers license for those under 21. Then go back for your Full G, "US equivalent" full license permitted to those over 21 yrs of age. Not to mention that you have to pay an additional $40 a pop each test! All given directly from the website you listed as well, so where was I wrong in my figures? I may not be a citizen of Canada but Ive been here and back and forth enough to know what Im talking about. I usually don't give exact quotes just the round figures.

Agent my friend when I checked in they just looked at it and said go now not saying that Amtrak hasn't done it I've had situations where Amtrak has put in my DL number if traveling from the US but there's were times I showed my birth certificate and they just let me go. Via rail usually didn't change a thing just looked and asked for my ID as soon as I said US Born citizen it was all good. Im sure come June 1 st. all that will be out the window, they may have been participating in APIS since 2005 but that doesn't mean they were always using it to its full potential (think about that).

PS: I dont even know who the PM is around here Im just a resident not dual citizen or looking for citizenship but the card Im speaking of is NOT NEXUS I wouldn't get it as I never cross alone and one condition is that to really use it to its full potential you must travel alone or with others that also have a NEXUS. Its the PR card Im speaking of the "Permanent Resident Card" , as I own property in Canada and my fiance is Canadian I have one of these.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informatio ... /index.asp
FROM SITE: "This wallet-sized plastic card is required for all permanent residents of Canada seeking to re-enter Canada on a commercial carrier (airplane, boat, train or bus)."
thanks for the info about Greyhound I know there had to be something to it lucky S.O.B.!