Amtrak Grade Crossing Safety

buddah wrote:Hello friends

First to my friend NSVIA yes you can get the passport for "as low as" $87.00 dollars now, but Im talking in general as I had a family member go through this just a year ago. pay the fee of $92 for the passport then you have to pay the $25 consultation fee ( its included afterwords as I found out), then do you really want to wait 3-6 PLUS months to get your passport? Sorry we didn't have that time as we had a wedding to go to in NYC so he needed it in 2 weeks or less so add in the $70 for express service, could have got the $30 option but don't trust it, OOOHHH plus the 13% GST /PST tax.. In general around the $200 range.
All can be found from the website YOU provided
Drivers license again First $125.00 for your G1 which in the US means your permit. Then go back for your G2 $75.00 "US equivalent" drivers license for those under 21. Then go back for your Full G, "US equivalent" full license permitted to those over 21 yrs of age. Not to mention that you have to pay an additional $40 a pop each test! All given directly from the website you listed as well, so where was I wrong in my figures? I may not be a citizen of Canada but Ive been here and back and forth enough to know what Im talking about. I usually don't give exact quotes just the round figures.

Agent my friend when I checked in they just looked at it and said go now not saying that Amtrak hasn't done it I've had situations where Amtrak has put in my DL number if traveling from the US but there's were times I showed my birth certificate and they just let me go. Via rail usually didn't change a thing just looked and asked for my ID as soon as I said US Born citizen it was all good. Im sure come June 1 st. all that will be out the window, they may have been participating in APIS since 2005 but that doesn't mean they were always using it to its full potential (think about that).

PS: I dont even know who the PM is around here Im just a resident not dual citizen or looking for citizenship but the card Im speaking of is NOT NEXUS I wouldn't get it as I never cross alone and one condition is that to really use it to its full potential you must travel alone or with others that also have a NEXUS. Its the PR card Im speaking of the "Permanent Resident Card" , as I own property in Canada and my fiance is Canadian I have one of these.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informatio ... /index.asp
FROM SITE: "This wallet-sized plastic card is required for all permanent residents of Canada seeking to re-enter Canada on a commercial carrier (airplane, boat, train or bus)."
thanks for the info about Greyhound I know there had to be something to it lucky S.O.B.!

Okay, I wasn't sure of what your actual status is. I'm hoping to to be someday dual citizen and I know about Ontario's Graduated Licensing System (as thats where I want to live someday too with one special lady) which is actually no different than the state I live in now just with different names for each step. I'm wondering why you had to take the tests again, but that should be discussed not this thread.

The Canadian friends I have all did the standard 3 to 6 months processing.(well except the one who works at Passport Canada ha and one who did SAME DAY processing as he does have money to burn. He crossed over the same day and US CBP had a chuckle). They all got it back in 2-3 months which was fine for them.

Now back on topic, US CBP was aware that when Amtrak joined APIS in 2005, that not all travel document fields would be used for all passengers (I think even the 9/11 commission pointed this out in its recommendation.) This is because APIS was designed for international air travel originally which they had to adapt to ground transportation carriers due to the different border crossing requirements.

Its still as effective as because they still had passenger's full names, date of birth and nationality among other details so when they fed this information into the Automatic Targeting System (which is a really neat computer system used by US CBP for risk assessment and you can request your records from it via FOIA), it would show also what ID you had used on previous trips with matching information. Now with the WHTI, it will enhance information because the travel document field is just mandatory and narrows down any issues.

Oh, you are talking about Canada's Permanent Resident card! Yeah, that was designed ONLY for the verification of residency to Canadian authorities as you described. It was never intended to presented to customs at other countries as the primary ID and even CIC mentions this. I've seen US CBP though ask for it in conjunction with a passport on some passengers in secondary screenings.

Skelly: I thought over my post and I realized that having the Maple Leaf all reserved helps matters here because of a generated manifest and a good idea of how many are going across the border on a run each day. The only possible problem would be a passenger boarding using a Quick-Trak ticket machine and then again the train crew would check to make sure that rider has the proper ID to present to Customs and then be added to the train manifest.

I took the big majority of my trips crossing the border between 1979-1990 back in the day of unreserved Empire Corridor trains-only the Lake Shore Limited was all-reserved back then.
With the present rules Customs and Immigration knows for the most part what it is dealing with-compared with the unpredictability of dealing with unreserved trains. MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:Skelly: I thought over my post and I realized that having the Maple Leaf all reserved helps matters here because of a generated manifest and a good idea of how many are going across the border on a run each day. The only possible problem would be a passenger boarding using a Quick-Trak ticket machine and then again the train crew would check to make sure that rider has the proper ID to present to Customs and then be added to the train manifest.

I took the big majority of my trips crossing the border between 1979-1990 back in the day of unreserved Empire Corridor trains-only the Lake Shore Limited was all-reserved back then.
With the present rules Customs and Immigration knows for the most part what it is dealing with-compared with the unpredictability of dealing with unreserved trains. MACTRAXX

Yeah, having the Maple Leaf as all reserved does help more than people seem. I know that both CBSA and US CBP used to use the information in APIS to get a ballpark figure of how many officers to send for inspection in addition to their other border security duties.

I used to do tickets my mail when I booked online for the Maple Leaf I of course was asked for the usual photo ID question which I presented my passport and always got the comment of "Your set for the border I see too."

Actually with the unreserved trains of the yesteryear, both the former Canada Customs & Revenue Agency and the US Customs Service (when it was under the US Dept of Treasury) I would say probably were not interested in a manifest anyways since they rather well, collect taxes and duties on incoming passengers....

What could actually help is if the passenger manifests were intergrated with the FBI terror watch list. The airline passenger carriers do this with background checks and those on the "Terror Database" are automatically on a "no-fly list", prohibited from flying within or to/from US points. Any one on the FBI database on a Amtrak/VIA mainfest would be prohibited from crossing borders. (Several of the 9/11 suspects were on the no-fly list but were never checked out and permitted to board.)

It's just a shame the 1776 and 1812 invasions of Canada did not succeed. We would not need all this crap.

Spending all this time and effort to secure a border that is of Zero threat to ether country is just silly.

Like it or not, Canada and the US operate as one single society for the most part.. We share several sports leagues. and other business endeavors. Our rail system is shared and the companies span the border.

Tightening things will do nothing but hurt commerce.

Think about how much less money we would spend if we would.....A get rid of all customs on both US Canadian borders.... and trust our closest ally to keep their sea port customs rigorous. Which I am sure they are.

Alcochaser wrote:It's just a shame the 1776 and 1812 invasions of Canada did not succeed. We would not need all this crap.

Spending all this time and effort to secure a border that is of Zero threat to ether country is just silly.

Like it or not, Canada and the US operate as one single society for the most part.. We share several sports leagues. and other business endeavors. Our rail system is shared and the companies span the border.

Tightening things will do nothing but hurt commerce.

Think about how much less money we would spend if we would.....A get rid of all customs on both US Canadian borders.... and trust our closest ally to keep their sea port customs rigorous. Which I am sure they are.

Maybe we need a North American (US/Canada) version of Schengen .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

Traveled all around Europe in the summer of 2007. Had to show my passport three times - arriving at Gatwick, Checkin for the Eurostar at Waterloo and flying out at Frankfurt. Other than those three times never noticed or saw any boarder checks

The only problem with suggesting a Schengen type agreement for the US and Canada is the conspiracy nuts will now start up about N.A.U. and Ameros ....

reverse all this independance nonense and come back into the commonwealth , i say .

R36 Combine Coach wrote:What could actually help is if the passenger manifests were intergrated with the FBI terror watch list. The airline passenger carriers do this with background checks and those on the "Terror Database" are automatically on a "no-fly list", prohibited from flying within or to/from US points. Any one on the FBI database on a Amtrak/VIA mainfest would be prohibited from crossing borders. (Several of the 9/11 suspects were on the no-fly list but were never checked out and permitted to board.)

The Automated Targeting System does what you describe; it pulls in data from the various lists from the FBI, USMS, USSS, etc, and INTERPOL. APIS and the ATS actually work together. When you see actually US CBP doing an exit customs check on the Maple Leaf at Niagara Falls, NY, its because ATS red flagged someone on board. Neither system of course existed prior to 9/11 (well parts of APIS did actually)

And the 9/11 guys were not on a no-fly list (as it did not exist at the time) but rather some of them were selected by CAPPS for additional screening (the old SSSS alert) However of course, CAPPS could be overidden by airline employees and in this case was done for them as they had no checked luggage; only carry-ons.

Alco and RRS: I fully understand how you both feel-I have to agree perhaps the US and Canada could use a "Schengen Agreement" being the unfortified border that it is.

The problem is satistfying those towards the right of the political spectrum who feel that Canada is some sort of threat-the "Close the Border" types.

Canada and the USA have integral ties that have suffered in recent years and reading how DHS and its Canadian counterpart approach this border security issue is disheartening to many-including me.

With the security checks approaching airline intensity as mentioned by Skelly we may be saying good-bye to the old informal border crossing ways for good. MACTRAXX

Alcochaser wrote:It's just a shame the 1776 and 1812 invasions of Canada did not succeed. We would not need all this crap.

David Benton wrote:reverse all this independance nonense and come back into the commonwealth , i say .

RRspatch wrote:Maybe we need a North American (US/Canada) version of Schengen .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

Traveled all around Europe in the summer of 2007. Had to show my passport three times - arriving at Gatwick, Checkin for the Eurostar at Waterloo and flying out at Frankfurt. Other than those three times never noticed or saw any boarder checks

The only problem with suggesting a Schengen type agreement for the US and Canada is the conspiracy nuts will now start up about N.A.U. and Ameros ....

I agree - Canada is our largest trading partner (last I'd heard, anyway), and limiting traffic between their cities and ours isn't helping matters in the United States OR Canada. There'd have to be a few laws brought closer to similarity (drug and tariff laws, among others), but those are small roadblocks in the grand scheme of things.

Aaaaand bringing this back to Amtrak, the more open the borders, the more connections we can feasibly have with our northern neighbors by rail. Right now, we have three trains into Canada, but that's only a pittance. With fewer restrictions at the borders, we could have a Downeaster to St. John and Moncton, full corridor service from Chicago to Quebec, a Winnipeg Limited through the Twin Cities and a Rocky Mountain Ranger all the way from Edmonton to El Paso, along with today's service. None of these services would make sense for much of their length, without the connections through the border.

I had this idea for a transborder loop train my head for some time.

The train would start in Albany then do the usual Empire Service stops to Niagara Falls where it would be handed off to VIA. Then VIA would essentially run it as a corridor train to Montreal where it then would then flip back over to Amtrak to Albany and the loop would start over again. Run two of these in each direction daily and we might have a winner.

Would having passengers cross the border by bus achieve any time savings ???

Busing passengers and their luggage over the border while the train ran empty was tried on the Chicago-Toronto International for a while about a year before the train was discontinued. All it accomplished was making the passengers even more irate at the customs and immigration procedure.

Im back...
After some research this morning on the Schengen_Agreement I do believe this would be a great benefit for the US and Canada to have such and agreement, I mean realistically Mexico yes that can be fenced (as most of it is now) but the Canada/US border, that will never happen, its just to vast. A simple check in when crossing border lines is what should be required not this trumped up over zealous superficial nonsense we currently go through. Those who are not US or Canadian citizens/residents would go through the regular custom checks. Heck even NORAD scans the Canadian air space and is allowed so freely and shares the info back and forth with Canada's air force and the US air force.

Agentskelly thats a quite ambitious yet very original Idea for a loop train service. Im not sure if the scheduling would collide with any of VIA's day service in its current format, but if it ran exclusively overnight on the Canadian segment it would in theory work as VIA no longer has overnight service from Toronto to Montreal. A layover of 2-3 hours in Kingston ON may be needed possible refuel there as well. The VIA Enterprise was canceled some years ago, and although VIA has committed more trains recently to the Toronto-Montreal run none are over night as of yet. The only major issue would be the entire LULA or Central station use in Montreal and track rights, that's a whole other topic ( already pages long!)

Marctraxx... you bring up a good question I have never used Quick-Trak ticket machine for a cross border trip I wonder how that will play out come june 1st. Im guessing Amtrak just might restrict ticket sales form Quick-Trak ticket machine for US destinations only.

Ken and David.... Yes the bus to cross the border idea was as my down south people would say..."A HOT MESS!" .. I did it 2 time on the Retired International all the lugging back and forward of luggage no help what so ever form agents, the disgusting generic buses they used, the wasted time ( it made us only later than we would have been, no time saving benefits whatsoever). The fact of not knowing where you were going to end up if you got refused entry ether as the bus was not providing a way for you back to the station. It was just ridiculous to say the least. That was definitely not a suitable solution, Amtrak advertises connections to VIA Rail service on there Wolverine route trains by way of Detroit/Windsor but in BOLD letters Amtrak says.." connections to VIA service and crossing the border are solely the passengers responsibility and Amtrak is in no way responsible for missed connections!..."

David Benton wrote:Would having passengers cross the border by bus achieve any time savings ???

Nine years ago I took the connecting bus that then ran from Gare Centrale to St Albans. It was very early - about 05.30 - and I would have preferred to have a train to snooze in. The bus stopped at the border posts. Everyone had to get out and go through the procedures, probably at both sets but I can't remember clearly.

Much the same was true when crossing on the bus from Buffalo to Niagara on the way to Toronto.

If we can cross borders in Europe by train that proves it's possible to do it. Coming from Paris to Waterloo the main check was in Waterloo (now St Pancras). What's needed is planning and organisation.