Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[twropr]

On about Aug. 7, CSX placed new TK 2 in service north of Portland between CPF 185 and new CPF 189.
Not sure why this was done. Did CSX pay or NNEPRA pay as part of their plan to add another frequency?
Andy

[markhb]

On about Aug. 7, CSX placed new TK 2 in service north of Portland between CPF 185 and new CPF 189.
Not sure why this was done. Did CSX pay or NNEPRA pay as part of their plan to add another frequency?
Andy

I had to look up the mileposts, but it looks like you're talking about the new Royal Siding, running for roughly 4 miles south of Royal Junction. NNEPRA paid for it, pre-CSX (mainly pre-pandemic), at least in part because without it they couldn't run to Brunswick on every trip. I believe right now it's the planned site for meets between 681 and 684, and between 685 and 688, especially because PAR had a habit of parking trains on Track 2 between CPF 192 and CPF194 (Riverside St. and Allen Ave.) for days. If you search for NNEPRA "Royal Junction Siding" you'll find quite a few docs that covered it.

Do you have "inside info" that it's been officially designated as Track 2? I don't know if they called it that before CSX.

[markhb]

I just discovered that NNEPRA had their August Board Meeting on the 14th, and the packet is available here. (WARNING: PDF). A couple surprising things from the July minutes popped out at me. (By way of context, it was also reported that ridership FYTD as of that meeting was at 90% of FY19 levels.)

Patricia provided background and the proposal of Amtrak’s request to change the coaches used for Downeaster service from Amfleets to the Horizon fleet. Patricia explained that there would be several concerns if the equipment were to change, including maintenance of equipment, service disruptions during the transition. Amtrak also proposed limiting Downeaster trains to 3 passenger coaches instead of 4. This would have a negative impact on ridership and revenue.

Motion to send a letter to Amtrak formally objecting to their proposals to change Downeaster fleet and reduce train set size: Accepted unanimously.

HORIZONS???? Exqueeze me?????

PROJECT UPDATE:

Jim Russell provided an update regarding the Wells Area Improvement Project noting that there has been a slight delay due to lingering agreements related to the transition between CSX and PanAm.

WORKPLAN UPDATE:

• Patricia provided an update on the Portalnd / Falmouth station projects noting that NNEPRA is working with MaineDOT and VHB to complete and [sic] site alternatives analysis for these projects.
• Patricia noted there would be a meeting in July with Amtrak to discuss operations of three roundtrips a day between Rockland and Brusnwick.

I am very interested in how that latter meeting came out, given that Finger Lakes is proceeding with their RDU excursion pilot. Also, I'm not sure how many "site alternatives" there are for the West Falmouth station, unless it's all nuances around site plan.

[west point]

Patricia provided background and the proposal of Amtrak’s request to change the coaches used for Downeaster service from Amfleets to the Horizon fleet. Patricia explained that there would be several concerns if the equipment were to change, including maintenance of equipment, service disruptions during the transition. Amtrak also proposed limiting Downeaster trains to 3 passenger coaches instead of 4. This would have a negative impact on ridership and revenue.

Motion to send a letter to Amtrak formally objecting to their proposals to change Downeaster fleet and reduce train set size: Accepted unanimously.

HORIZONS???? Exqueeze me?????

What the heck is with Amtrak? It is receiving more Siemens cars each week but continuous to cut back consists. Somebody please warn the NNE persons how unreliable Horizons are in winter weather.

[R36 Combine Coach]

Are there sufficient Horizons in Chicago to meet Midwest Hub service?

[MEC407]

Good Lord. No Vomit Comets, please.

[RandallW]

Since the new cars Amtrak has been receiving in the midwest are not owned by Amtrak (I think they are registered as IDOT for FRA purposes, but ownership is split between Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, and Wisconsin), Amtrak likely has a surplus of cars in the Midwest, and the Horizon cars are roughly 12 years younger than the Amfleet cars, Amtrak could have been thinking that it could begin retiring (or if not retiring, putting into storage) its oldest cars by redistributing the Horizon fleet.

I've never been on a Horizon car, so I can't comment on the passenger experience, but it seems to me that the sheer size of the Amfleet pool in the NEC means it would be better to keep an all-Amfleet fleet for regional services off the NEC.

[MEC407]

Even though the Horizons are newer, there's something about them that makes them feel older than the Amfleets. I think the harsh fluorescent lighting is at least partially responsible for this.

Here are interior shots of an Amfleet and a Horizon, both having received new seats in 2019:

Amfleet_Interior_2019.jpg

(166.37 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Amtrak_Horizon_Interior.jpg

(171.05 KiB) Not downloaded yet

[BandA]

It's good to see inside! The Amfleet looks like an airplane, the Horizon looks like an MBTA Bombardier or Pullman-Standard, albeit with carpet and nice seats! Maybe NNEPRA can lease the Messerschmidts that CTDOT has been using, lol. Amfleet looks like cool-white LEDs vs warm-white florescents.

[markhb]

When the Downeaster first started, Amtrak gave us Metroliners (complete with, as I understand it, window curtains). I never got to ride them before they were pulled due to the Acela brake issue but I recall them being praised in the press at the time. I recall asking far back in this thread, and I believe those are all gone or sold off now, alas.

[MEC407]

I remember them. They were configured for long distance service. In addition to curtains, they also had foot rests and extra legroom. The legroom was really the only substantive difference between those cars and the cars we have now.

[CSRR573]

Hell I remember when the seats had Double tree covers over the headrests.

[markhb]

Hell I remember when the seats had Double tree covers over the headrests.

Did they have the cookies?

[NH2060]

From an operational standpoint it actually makes sense to use the Horizons vs. the Amfleet Is on the Downeaster trains.

1) The Horizons use manual doors and the Amfleets use automatic doors. The Downeaster runs with no more than 5 cars and the NE Regionals run with 8+ cars. Using the Horizons would free up 15+ Amfleets for the NEC until the Airo trains arrive for both routes.

2) The service is not directly connected to the rest of the Amtrak system so any equipment used is technically “captive” compared to services that connect to/branch off from the NEC, etc. So it would be logical to use equipment that can’t/won’t be used in the NEC equipment pool.

3) As has been noted in the thread the cars are about 12-15 years younger than the oldest Amfleet Is which would buy plenty of extra time until the Airo sets are delivered for the Downeaster (which I suspect will probably be at the end of the general delivery schedule).

Now regarding their (in?)ability to handle winter weather, it’s worth noting that they’ve been used in the Midwest for almost 35 years. If those cars can endure *Midwest* winters they can surely handle the winter weather of coastal Maine with ease. Winters here in southern/coastal New England are somewhat milder in comparison to those in the Chicago Hub.

And as for their ride quality, I rode in the Horizons for the first time on the Cascades this past year and though it’s obviously not the same as an Amfleet I had no complaints regarding comfort (other than wishing I could have had the opportunity to ride in one of the remaining Talgo sets instead).

[west point]

All winters are not the same. Have been in severe winters both CHI and BOS. They are not the same! Much wetter especially in Maine.