Amtrak considering Bi-levels for NE Corridor

This is from the latest Amtrak long range plan. It's a question asked here many times. I still think if there isn't a good argument for new coach replacement, they would make a good diner with a nice wide kitchen below with dining above and at the ends. Also maybe even a take-out counter at one end. This would serve more passengers than the Viewliner II diner wouldn't it? Think Lake Shore Limited and Silver Service.

How about a Bi-level baggage car that would generate a lot more revenue than a sole purpose baggage car? You'd have to get creative in loading and unloading in high-level territory, but it would be even easier in low level territory.

Here's the info:

20. Single Level Cars on the NEC
The previous issues of this report included the general assumption that single level cars would replace single level cars and bi-level cars would replace bi-level cars. A notable potential exception to that was made for Midwest corridor services, where a transition to bi-level cars was identified as a potentially beneficial step which needed further analysis. That analysis is reflected in this updated issue of the report.

Beyond the Midwest services, the report prompted some debate about the possibility of moving away from single level cars entirely, and adopting bi-level cars for all new acquisitions. For the east coast services with restricted clearances that cannot accommodate Superliner or Surfliner equipment, a different configuration of car would be needed.
This issue has been addressed by commuter operators and the recent New Jersey Transit (NJT) of the Bombardier Multilevel car is a prominent example. This car can board from high and low level platforms and has upper and lower seating levels as well as a mid level at the end of the cars.

Amtrak has previously reviewed this type of equipment for potential use in the NEC. That analysis found that the configuration allowed little additional seating for an Amtrak style of service. Additionally, through train access issues would be problematic. Further work is, however, underway and Amtrak will study the results to see if the initial concerns have been overcome and a suitable configuration for our customers can be developed. These studies continue and will be reflected in future updates.

I think the subject way oversells the topic.

Basically, "we've looked at it, don't see much again given the constraints we'd have to live within, but we're not ruling it out."

I wouldn't get too excited about. And using them on the LD is even less likely in my opinion.

Amtrak could lease the ACES and try the concept.

For the record, amtrak has used NJT multilevels in revenue service.

I really don't see why they should opt for bi-level/multi-level cars for the NEC. If the tunnel and bridge clearances allowed for METRA/Caltrain double-decker type cars or even MBTA-type bi-levels then I guess it would be fine, but if what they're getting at is indeed something similar to the NJT and/or LIRR bilevels then I don't see how it would work.
1. Those cars IIRC have proven to be too heavy and have been causing excess wear and tear on the track.
2. There's hardly any proper luggage storage for real intercity travel, especially when it comes to comparing the overhead racks of the NJT/LIRR cars to those of the Amfleets. Commuters with briefcases, etc. are one thing, but passengers with larger bags, etc. are quite another.

Since they've already drawn up the designs for the Amfleet I's replacement and considering the quality of the comfort level afforded by the Acela coaches, it seems like a natural and wise move to simply buy a new fleet with an identical interior (as well as exterior) design. Single level cars will always have their merits over multi-levels (even before discussing seating capacity) where clearances prohibit taller equipment.

25Hz wrote:For the record, amtrak has used NJT multilevels in revenue service.

They have?

Greg Moore wrote:I think the subject way oversells the topic.

Basically, "we've looked at it, don't see much again given the constraints we'd have to live within, but we're not ruling it out."

I wouldn't get too excited about. And using them on the LD is even less likely in my opinion.

Agreed. You hit the nail on the head Greg Moore. This is an old story. They're not ruling it out because it is realized the cars can be picked up on the cheap if tacked on to a transit agency order. The years are starting to run together but either President Gunn or President Kummant looked into the prospect while the NJT double decker cars were being manufactured. They also looked into adding on to the NJT ALP-46a order to save money.

So, though unlikely, it isn't ruled out. There really isn't a need to start a thread on this.

morris&essex4ever wrote:

25Hz wrote:For the record, amtrak has used NJT multilevels in revenue service.

They have?

Yes. They have.

ThirdRail7 wrote:

morris&essex4ever wrote:

25Hz wrote:For the record, amtrak has used NJT multilevels in revenue service.

They have?

Yes. They have.

Thanksgiving or some other time?


I do think that Amtrak will eventually need to use bilevel equipment on the Corridor, once they max out their platforms and it becomes overly expensive to upgrade speeds and signals. Now is not that time, since there's so much lower-hanging fruit to address first.

The NJT multis were used during the Obama inaugeration day. I believe there was 2 sets although I could be wrong.

If it is possible,Amtrak could lease 2 of the ACES cars for testing on the NEC to see if the Bi-levels work
for corridor service,and let then run "loose" in the "NEC car pool",not just on 1 or 2 trains to see how well
they hold up.(put the test gear where the "Food Service" equipment was.)

Special moves are not the same as "Day in,Day out" service,24/7/365 avaibilty,except for
required servicing.

Amtrak67 of America wrote:The NJT multis were used during the Obama inaugeration day. I believe there was 2 sets although I could be wrong.

Correct: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbs1uq-NJU

I might be mistaken on this one, but I think we also borrowed a set during that Stephen Colbert event a few years ago. I know we had a few MARC sets.

mtuandrew wrote: I do think that Amtrak will eventually need to use bilevel equipment on the Corridor, once they max out their platforms and it becomes overly expensive to upgrade speeds and signals. Now is not that time, since there's so much lower-hanging fruit to address first.

How could we "max out" our platforms? You seem to forget that the passenger trains plying the NEC are the short. Even if you beef up the consists, they will most likely pale in comparison to the train lengths of the late 80's/early 90's. Metroliners aside, as "short" train was 8 cars. Most were 10-12 cars and the long distance trains were in the 18-22 car range (mail cars included.) The platforms were fine for then, they'll hold up now. As a matter of fact, a few have been rebuilt and extended.

Most platforms on the NEC are underutilized at this point.

Backshophoss wrote:If it is possible,Amtrak could lease 2 of the ACES cars for testing on the NEC to see if the Bi-levels work
for corridor service,and let then run "loose" in the "NEC car pool",not just on 1 or 2 trains to see how well
they hold up.(put the test gear where the "Food Service" equipment was.)

Special moves are not the same as "Day in,Day out" service,24/7/365 avaibilty,except for
required servicing.

The ACES cars are restricted to 100 mph NYP-PHL and 90 MPH PHL-WAS. What good would they do in the NEC car pool, which operates at 125mph?

ThirdRail7 wrote:

mtuandrew wrote: I do think that Amtrak will eventually need to use bilevel equipment on the Corridor, once they max out their platforms and it becomes overly expensive to upgrade speeds and signals. Now is not that time, since there's so much lower-hanging fruit to address first.

How could we "max out" our platforms? You seem to forget that the passenger trains plying the NEC are the short. Even if you beef up the consists, they will most likely pale in comparison to the train lengths of the late 80's/early 90's. Metroliners aside, as "short" train was 8 cars. Most were 10-12 cars and the long distance trains were in the 18-22 car range (mail cars included.) The platforms were fine for then, they'll hold up now. As a matter of fact, a few have been rebuilt and extended.

Most platforms on the NEC are underutilized at this point.

Exactly. It's not worth Amtrak's time to mess with bilevels now, and probably not even for the corridor coaches following the next batch (sorry I didn't make that clear in my first post.)

Though, I didn't realize the platforms are THAT long. I thought most were in the 12-15 car range, though I should know better from riding the NEC between NYP and PHL.

Cute,I take it the truck design is not based on Pioneer III spec's which the Comets and Amfleet share.
And there's no way a truck swap would work as well??
Even wth a spare(if any?) set of Viewliner trucks??

Backshophoss wrote:Cute,I take it the truck design is not based on Pioneer III spec's which the Comets and Amfleet share.
And there's no way a truck swap would work as well??
Even wth a spare(if any?) set of Viewliner trucks??

A truck swap? Oooph. You're luring me out of my area of knowledge. I don't know if that's possible and if it would help raise the speed since comets aren't rated for 125mph. Neither are the Viewliners. They max at 110mph. Horizon cars are rated for 125, if that helps. Is speed rating merely a matter of swapping trucks or do weight and dynamics come into play?

I can't answer any of this Backshophoss. I'm still trying to figure how a car can run 100mph on one division and 90 on another. This sounds like a job for:



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