Adirondack Scenic Railroad (ADIX) Discussion - 2013

After reading the letter crafted to snowmobilers, what bullet points can we use to support retaining the rails?

SteelRail wrote:After reading the letter crafted to snowmobilers, what bullet points can we use to support retaining the rails?

First thing to do is to show proof that the railroad is a viable and possibly year round asset, second, prove that future trail revenue is speculative, at best. The snowmobile use will only be available after the hunting season ends till on average mid April, and lets not forget the number of winter thaw's that happen in this time period. The only time that a trail will generate real revenue after the snow melts is between Memorial day and Labor day, when most people plan their vacations. A recreational trail in this region may not even experience 150 opportunities days of generating measurable revenue for local businesses. I have yet to see where a non abandon, in service rail operation was converted to a multi use recreational trail. I would send out a letter to the snowmobile contingency that if they support rail removal and the trail advocates loose that they will no longer allow groomers on their rails to pack the snow for snowmobile use, and that the trail advocates are only using their lobby to further their agenda and will end up banning snowmobile or any motor vehicle use. It should be easy to show the snowmobilers who has supported them in the past, the trail advocates have already tried to have snowmobiles banned from other trails, believe me snowmobilers know that the trail advocates are wolves wearing a sheep disguise.

SteelRail wrote:After reading the letter crafted to snowmobilers, what bullet points can we use to support retaining the rails?

To me, the simplest argument is that the corridor already IS a snowmobile trail. Removing the rails will not add one mile of new snowmobile trail to the existing (and already very extensive, I might add) system. The only thing to be gained by the snowmobiles would be a few additionl weeks on the edges of the season. Besides that, there are new snomobile trails being constructed (community connector trails) that provide alternative routes from the central adirondacks to the north country. A 12 mile segment between Inlet and Raquette Lake was just opened this year.

My good friend and rail-fan David sent this letter out to some NY senators, the DOT and DEC. I think he makes some good points, what do you all think?

Greetings:


I strongly urge you NOT to support the "fanatic bicycle organization" Rails to Trails plan to rip out the tracks in the Travel Corridor
between Big Moose and Saranac Lake. First I highly doubt that a significant number of people will ride into the wilderness for 12 or more miles.
There can be no established facilities along the route for food, shelter, or human waste. IF the travel corridor is to be opened up
for bicycle travel perhaps the rails should remain. This can be accomplished by putting a trail along side the tracks where possible and where not
enough room exists fill in between the rails with rock dust or similar material. This can be brought in by rail car where needed.


There is a prime example of this exact situation in Laconia, NH http://www.bikekinetix.com/t_nh/nh_rail ... lle_rt.php
Another good example is in York, PA http://yorkcountypa.gov/parks-recreatio ... -park.html


It is not reasonable and prudent to rip up the historic track and replace it with a bicycle trail that will get limited use except in specific areas with scenic attraction. In addition IF a large number of bikers were to penetrate the travel corridor 10 miles or more and IF a few needed ANY type of assistance
it would be very hard to obtain or even reach an emergency dispatch center. Imagine a heart attack or broken leg 10 miles or more into the wilderness,
no cell phone reception, no EMT nearby, perhaps a damaged bicycle left to clutter the corridor. Maintenance could be another problem -
who will pay for and supervise the cutting of brush and removal of waste and litter ?


David Buckbee

Tree68:

I have already sent in a detailed response.

You may use whatever you like and I sent you an email of the 1980 ridership from ADRC - 1980 to use as you wish as it is public information that was obtained from NYSDOT some years ago.

My 1980 timebook does not record ridership, just trip details and payroll information. I believe that big day of over 700 in July 1980 was due to transferring Boy Scouts from Woodgate to Sabattis. I worked northbound #3 that day but nothing unusual is noted in my time book.

CJ

Please post instructions on who to contact via email and/or mail among NY politicians and governmental organizations so we can submit our opinions. Everyone here should submit emails and/or letters opposing interference with the railroad. Numbers will win over elegance. And they are winning on numbers if we don't act together.

Written comments also may be submitted by Sept. 25 to:
[email protected]

faxed to 518-457-3183

mailed to Raymond F. Hessinger, Director, Freight & Passenger Rail Bureau, NYS Department of Transportation, 50 Wolf Road, POD 54, Albany, NY 12232.

Submitted my letter today -

As a former (and perhaps future) resident of Utica, I follow planning activities in and around the Utica/Rome area. I have followed the planning issues surrounding the Utica to Lake Placid Rail corridor with great interest. As an out of state resident, I don't know if my comments will be counted or included in the discussion of the CUMP but wish to submit them anyway.

I strongly believe the rails should be kept in place and developed for the following reasons:

1. Rail service provides an alternate to automobile traffic in the region reducing highway congestion and space required for parking cars.

2. Snowmobilers, bikers and hikers have plenty of trails for their use and enjoyment; the rail corridor is a unique asset which should be maintained and made available to citizens throughout the state

3. The railroad will be an ingress and egress funnel for snowmobilers (sleds on flat cars?) , hikers, bikers, rafters, campers etc and thereby reducing auto use in the park

4. The railroad is a good thing for Utica - limiting potential expansion of rail service limits economic growth and opportunity all along the line including its terminus city of Utica.

The state snowmobile plan of 2006 notes the following social benefits of rail access:

A significant expansion of the regional economy.
A substantial increase in rail-and trail-based recreational and educational opportunity.
The preservation of the Corridor as an important historic resource.
The development of new public transportation and freight services.
Substantial revenue to State agencies in proportion to the degree of Corridor development.
A significant improvement in safety conditions on the Corridor and an associated reduction in the liability exposure of State agencies.
The improved utilization of a public resource.

The state snowmobile plan notes minor negative impacts of continued rail use. I believe many of these same minor impacts can be associated with increased snowmobile use such as:
noise pollution,
toxic chemical spills (gas/oil),
air pollution,
disturbance of adjacent wetlands and property owners
increase need for law enforcement, emergency services etc.

Keep the rail, please.

I plan to attend the Tupper Lake meeting and say this:

How are the trail advocates going to keep the ATVs from destroying the trail? Why don't they advocate to develop existing railbeds into trails?

Before the state should consider destroying an operating railroad, they should require trail advocates to 1) come up with a plan to keep ATVs off the tracks and implement it on the Adirondack Scenic tracks (look in Tupper where they dig their ATV holes), and 2) successfully develop some unused railbed before having a go at the ASRR's railbed. What if the state destroys the railbed and the trail advocates turn out to be incompetent monkeys who are only flinging poop? Then we would have no railroad and no trail. Better to have them prove their competency at trail creation first. I suggest the NYC railbed from Lake Clear Junction up to Malone. It is no more or less difficult to turn into a trail than would be the ASRR's railbed.

Aren't the tracks in the Adirondak park? And if they are removed shouldn't row revert to forever wilde like the rest of the park?
Al

alzubal wrote:Aren't the tracks in the Adirondak park? And if they are removed shouldn't row revert to forever wilde like the rest of the park?
Al

I am surprised Otto did not whack this statement, I don't believe anyone including myself, that participates with opinion on this thread want to even think about any scenario, after rail removal.

alzubal wrote:Aren't the tracks in the Adirondack park? And if they are removed shouldn't row revert to forever wild like the rest of the park?
Al

A key point, and one which the snowmobile community is in denial about. All they see is the opportunity to get rid of those much hated rails. If someone mentions that they might end up losing the trail completely, they plug their ears and turn the other way.

The trail people may be evil, but they're not stupid. They're going to keep the railbed classified as a right-of-way, and not let it revert to wilderness.

At least, in their fantasies, that's what happens. They dismiss the power of the people who are just itching to get the railroad pulled so they can create more wilderness and wild forest.

BTW, they claim here: https://www.facebook.com/theadirondackr ... ed_comment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
that the tracks between Saranac and Old Forge are in such bad shape that they cannot be used for equipment moves. True or outright falsehood?

Good evening everyone, hope everyone here had a safe and plesant weekend, here is a link to a
snowmobile forum and their thoughts on this topic.

http://www.trailconditions.com/vbforum/ ... hp?t=23740" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;