You take a high speed train from Downtown Podunk to Downtown

Zip Cars has anyone used them?

Thats my point that many cities in the midwest have there busneses move to the burbs in office parks

The point remains:

Mas transit becomes a market-diven choice only when population density, and the traffic congestion that density naturally spawns, become so great that the train becomes the logical choice over the private auto. With the possibe exception of the point that the extra cost of a larger and wider highway network doesn't reflect the full cost, and the corollary that a small portion of the users, be they rush-hour-only commuters or overladed trucks, don't pay their full share of the marhinal costs, the rest boils down mostly to an ideological conflict.

The certainty of a continued increase in the price of efficient and easy-to-handle liquid fuel is the single largest factor inveghing in faore of the development of mass transit alternatives. The continued push further into the exurbs should be easy to accomodate if speeds on existing lines are improved, and they surely can be. But the desire for individual mobility, and the escape from unnecessary regimentation is a central feature of most peoples' personality, and it is more common among thr youung, the better-educated, and the innovative.

So i think it's a pretty safe bet that future investments in research, particularly within the private sector, will show a strong bias toward retention of the auto-centric cultire. Advocacy of mass transi solely for some supposed "greater common good" comes off as just one more pitch for Big Brother/Sister.

David Benton wrote:What i meant was , when businessmen fly , they dont have a car to get to the suburbs , so why is that different from hsr ?

Is this a trick question?

In the USA, at least, they rent a car at the airport and drive to their destination. Virtually every commercial airport in the USA has car rental offices right in the airport (by the luggage claim area), with the cars themselves either right next to the terminal or a short shuttle bus ride away.

I don't know of any Amtrak station in the US that has anything like this. The closest they came was that, at one time, you could get Amtrak to arrange for a rental company to bring a car to certain Amtrak stations. But, basically, when you arrive at an Amtrak station, you are on your own.

amm in ny wrote:

David Benton wrote:What i meant was , when businessmen fly , they dont have a car to get to the suburbs , so why is that different from hsr ?

Is this a trick question?

In the USA, at least, they rent a car at the airport and drive to their destination. Virtually every commercial airport in the USA has car rental offices right in the airport (by the luggage claim area), with the cars themselves either right next to the terminal or a short shuttle bus ride away.

I don't know of any Amtrak station in the US that has anything like this. The closest they came was that, at one time, you could get Amtrak to arrange for a rental company to bring a car to certain Amtrak stations. But, basically, when you arrive at an Amtrak station, you are on your own.

Really? Even the Minneapolis - St. Paul station has a Hertz outlet on-site, and they only get one train a day in each direction. I expect the same is true for other major cities, either there or nearby.

amm in ny wrote: I don't know of any

Found your problem right here.

Please dont assume that YOUR local station = EVERY train station. I cant think of a single big city train station that DOESNT have car rental options.

And havent you ever heard of Enterprise? They pick you up.

Drive a car from Downtown Bigcity to Downtown Megatropolis.

Then what? You meeting is in the city and you have 3 other sales calls to make. Do you pay for parking? At $6 an hour, that will add up. And what if theyre all full? How long will it take you to find parkingin an unknown city? And what about all those confusing one way streets? The local traffic is too slow to do make all your appointments. Should you have used transit in the first place? Subway gets you places faster than surface roads.

Zip Cars has anyone used them?

Zip car is pretty decent and many transit stations in the Boston area have them nearby. It could be a decent option for a business traveler.

And havent you ever heard of Enterprise? They pick you up.

I've used this service in Dover, NH of all places.

jamesinclair wrote:I cant think of a single big city train station that DOESNT have car rental options.

"Options" is a rather vague word.

From the point of view of a traveller arriving in a strange city at whatever time his/her train/plane/bus arrives, there's a huge difference between having a counter right there where you arrive, with somebody there when you arrive, ready to hand you a key, and having somebody agree to pick you up and bring you to a car rental office several miles away to rent a car, but only if you arrive during normal business hours. Or being told that you have to get yourself to the car rental office. New York City, for instance, is in that last category.

I Googled(tm) "renting cars at Amtrak stations" and found an an article from Trains magazine on the subject, which indicates that there are 19 stations with on-site car rentals (indicated with "(S)" in their list), which is more than I thought.

Oddly enough, North White Plains, NY (Metro-North, not Amtrak) has (or at least had) a car rental next door. However, there is also a U-Haul rental nearby, so it may just be a popular location for vehicle rental depots.

jamesinclair wrote:And havent you ever heard of Enterprise? They pick you up.

Will they do that at whatever hour your train arrives?

One of the things about car rentals at airports is that they seem to be open even if you're on the last flight of the day and the plane is late.

I've had Enterprise pick me up (not at a train station, though), but only during the hours when the local office was open. And the only car rental offices I've found that were open outside normal business hours were at airports.

The Trains article indicates that limited hours are an issue with car rental at many Amtrak stations, but they don't say which ones.

What seems to be a issue with conservtives is that High Speed Rail will beninfit only Yuppie Liberal Democrats in Big Citys who ride sedan limos anyway....Without rural stations for red neck farmers to drop off there grandmothers in there pick up trucks to be sped to the big hopistal in the big city to get a liver transplant...High Speed Rail will be a red state vs blue state issue.

Gearhead....And I suppose only the freeloader democrats who want goverNment provision of everything from hangnails to burials will want free urban transportation to use their food stamps to buy booze at the mall??? Right???
Get a life.... The HSR pro or con comes down to cost/benefit, and in a time of fiscal and monetary meltdown, not really a top priority ...if you want to save what's left of our economy.

Gearhead, I'm going to give you a pass on calling farmers a bunch of red necks. I grew up on a farm and it's hard work. A lot of the people I grew up with knew the meaning of hard work and taking pride in what you do, so be careful with your stereotypes.

To address the actual point your making, high speed rail is not a means to an end unless you are both in the city, and even then it may not be. Options need to exist at the train station. The technology behind zip car has the potential to make this work, as does having good connections with conventional rail and other systems. Placing all the eggs in one basket though (as in connecting to mass transit) is the mistake. I want to take the train to Springfield MA, I don't want to take 3 more buses to get to my hotel and only be able to go where the bus goes.

HSR will become more like air travel, a point to point destination with infrastructure on either end to facilitate reaching your final destination.

And for being able to drive 95 to 100, in the USA, the word for that is "Wreckless Driving" and in some places it could mean jail time, and in some places it will require weaving in and out of traffic which comes with it's own set of charges.

Sorry my emotions got the best of me on that last post-
What I meant to say is that High Speed Rail as it is proposed will be seen by rural voters as to only benifit a small class of people who live and work in major citys, Those that live in urban housing and work downtown. What we are missing is that having high speed rail stations in rural areas will benifit Ag workers and rural tradesmen by allowing them to remain in those areas but have the amititys of the big city a short 45 min train ride away. Another thing is that my reserch into passenger loadings of the Pennsy Railroad and NYC Railroad was that the majority of there passengers traveled on a average of 50 miles or less. Having High Speed rail stops in small towns will make it easy for factorys and light industry to locate there without having to charter a jet everytime there exucutives need to get out there.

Red Neck- The Coal Miners In WV who were in solidity with there fellow union workers in the 1920s wore red neckerchiefs hence the name "redneck". I would not underestamate WV since a Rockafeller runs things down there as a Congressman.

www.Zipcar.com

They'll rent you a car by the hour. There are Zipcars near Chicago Union station, 30th Street Station Philly, Pittsburgh Station, New Haven CT, Baltimore, London UK, and a host of others.

If this situation is something you find yourself in, getting a subscription plan with Zipcar would be worthwhile. Reserve the car from your phone. No gas to buy it is included in the rate. Just walk up to the car, swipe your zipcard over the sensor on the windshield, get in and drive away. Works great. I use them regularly.