• Will They Ever Return?

  • General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by scratchyX1
 
RandallW wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 3:45 am The KISS and Flirt MUs are FRA compliant in mixed traffic (and assembled in Salt Lake City). It seems NJT prefers to use foreign locomotives as the ALP-45As, ALP-45DPs, APL-46s and APL-46As are all imported from Germany.
Also, KISS MUs come with optional wraps for Space man, Cat man, Demon, and Star child.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
OK. Mr. Scratchy, you get whatever award is the equivalent of Oscar, Emmy, whatever for a stand up commedian :P

But you have raised an interesting point, which resulted in my locating this, apparently railfan-with-access produced, video:

https://youtu.be/6n-N_SWKF6Q

It would appear evident that this DMU equipment is FRA compliant, and meets any applicable "buy American" requirements.

Finally and again, I cannot fault METRA 's Board for procuring the 200 bi-level cars. They awarded the contract based upon conditions during '19. Nobody foresaw COVID; and nobody foresaw the permanent economic conditions that WFH has left behind even as the pandemic has largely ended.
  by lensovet
 
RandallW wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 3:45 am The KISS and Flirt MUs are FRA compliant in mixed traffic (and assembled in Salt Lake City). It seems NJT prefers to use foreign locomotives as the ALP-45As, ALP-45DPs, APL-46s and APL-46As are all imported from Germany.
According to Wikipedia, FLIRT operators in the US are TexRAIL, Arrow, and DART, none of which are FRA-compliant lines and all of which use time separation with freight the same way the NJT River Line does.

The only KISS DMUs that exist in the world are operating in Azerbaijan. The Caltrain KISS EMUs (not DMUs) are FRA-compliant on an alternative approval track that, for example, requires PTC installed on all trains that are not time-separated, which is not something achievable for passenger roads that share tracks with long-distance freight. Only 4 train sets have arrived on the property at this time.

NJT prefers to use locomotives for operations that require it. An MU is not going to be the optimal choice for all agencies and service patterns. If they aren't dependent on federal funding to procure their equipment, why limit themselves to rolling stock that's manufactured in the US?
  by RandallW
 
PTC is required for *all* routes that carry regular commuter traffic, including NJT routes (meaning there is no regulatory advantage to NJT of not needing PTC equipment). Can you point to anything suggesting the waivers on the KISS equipment would prevent their use in the NEC?

I can't since the waivers for the Caltrain KISS units in the Federal Register are to label the emergency brake levers as "Emergency Brake" instead of "Emergency Brake Valve", to allow magnetic emergency brakes to be within 2.5 inches of the top of rail, and to not carry uncoupling safety gear needed for knuckle couples, but not for Scharfenberg couplers, to avoid the handrails and platforms needed for crew to ride outside the cars, and allow safety interlocks to prevent passengers from opening doors at speed. The waivers for the Arrow flirt units are for the emergency brake valve designs, end platforms on passenger cars (both also in the KISS waivers), and to relax interior inspection schedule requirements.

This implies that the time separation of FLIRT units in CA is to either to waive the use PTC or avoid train movement conflicts that would delay passenger trains, not for safety related to crash protections.

(These waivers also imply it is considered a safety feature that a passenger can open a door on a train operating at 110 MPH.)
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
OK; so apparently this Stadtler equipment cannot operate on a Class I without the "clearances" light rail equipment gets to operate over the River Line in NJ?

My earlier thought that Stadtler "FLIRT" equipment operated on the UTA lines, which uses the DRGW Salt Lake-Provo and UP Ogden-Brigham City, was mistaken..
  by RandallW
 
There are no alternative crashworthiness standards that prevent the Stadler FLIRTs or KISSes from being used in mixed traffic on Class I railroads.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
So, Mr. Randall W, your statement means that nothing has come to your attention to establish that this Stadler equipment would be barred from operating on METRA lines, be they CNW (UP), CBQ(BNSF), MILW(NICRC), SOO(CN), IC(CN), CRI&P(NICRC), or WAB(NS).
  by RandallW
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:39 pm So, Mr. Randall W, your statement means that nothing has come to your attention to establish that this Stadler equipment would be barred from operating on METRA lines, be they CNW (UP), CBQ(BNSF), MILW(NICRC), SOO(CN), IC(CN), CRI&P(NICRC), or WAB(NS).
That is correct as far as the FRA is concerned.

As we saw with the Amtrak SDP40Fs being barred from multiple railroads, BNSF's insistence that the Talgos cant less than designed for, and with UP's insistence that the Missouri River Runners have 30 axles minimum it is possible for host railroads to put additional restrictions in place.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Of info, the Q ran engine, two car trains or
fourteen (E-8's A-1-A) axles. so it might be a stretch to operate a three car 12 axle DMU set.

Unfortunately for METRA, that 200 car order cannot be "unwound" in favor if equipment more suited for the loss of ridership.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Still more on "they're never coming back";

https://www.wsj.com/articles/we-asked-w ... 65?mod=mhp
A battle of wills could be ahead. The gap between what employees and bosses want remains wide, with bosses expecting in-person collaboration and workers loath to forgo flexibility, according to monthly surveys of worker sentiment maintained by Nicholas Bloom, a Stanford University economist who studies remote work
Maybe a deep recession, '08 or worse, but saving that, bosses, mass transit agencies, landlords, and restaurants had best accept reality.
  by lensovet
 
Unemployment remains at record lows…so I get the impression that bosses continue to have the upper hand, surveys notwithstanding.

It costs nothing to say on a survey that you won't come into the office, but when your job is on the line, tunes are going to change.
  by eolesen
 
Not sure what the fascination with the unemployment rate is when discussing knowledge workers. Those are the ones who are never coming back to the cities, and the ones most likely to live further out.

I find it most curious that those who embraced the idea you could take a knowledge job and send it to India because of cheap Telecom costs are now the ones complaining that the workers left behind in the cities want that same ability to be connected without being physically present.



Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
I've noted it before, but I reiterate, the most lasting COVID Socio-economic revolution will simply be WFH

I think that knowledge workers have now come to realize that they are little different than "those out there on the floor"; they have been employed in their capacities because ostensibly they "have brains those other guys don't".

Beyond that, they're quickly they're just fodder - no different than the guys and gals out there; so why not go for what is the most convenient way to "make quota"?

Just as well; I'M RETIRED. (and that's even though I had my own CPA practice starting during '82; closed for good '17).
  by lensovet
 
edflyerssn007 wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:01 pm FWIW LIRR and MetroNorth have both seen increases in ridership since this discussion started.

https://data.ny.gov/Transportation/MTA- ... -8kew/data

Weekend ridership is at pre-covid levels but weekday ridership is still only just above two-thirds.
That's where it already was in November of last year.
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