Why is this locomotive numbered 4003?

Curious photo at "Fallen Flags" site:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc4003dsa.jpg

Appears to be New York Central 4003. (Photo dated 1970, so after the penn Central merger, but no PC markings: New York Central "cigar band" scheme.) Also appears to be an E8. (Somewhat battered E8, missing a couple of portholes along the side, but definitely an 8 or 9, not an E7 with stainless steel air filters added.)

But NYC 4000-4035 were E7, with the E8 numbers starting at 4036. Is there a story here?

rebuilt after wreck by EMD 4003 and 4020 E8Am 2250 hp.(X2200 South).

Charles

and the E7's were likely gone by the time this E8 was renumbered.
although..why did the rebuilt E8's need to be renumbered at all?
why couldnt they just keep their original numbers?

Scot

These units were E7s, so they weren't renumbered, they retained their original numbers. The accident occured in March 1953, before the last E8s were delivered later that year.

I thought that these units were rebuilt with E8 carbodies only and for all intents and purposes with still E7s, i.e., rated at 2000hp. That's why they were still classed as DPA-1 versus DPA-5 after the rebuild, and (perhaps) why they weren't numbered in with the E8s. Any one know the facts?

Happy Christmas!!!

#4003 was the 2nd unit on Train #5 which was involved in the 3-train wreck east of Conneaut, Ohio in March, 1953. Unit was partially rebuilt and returned to service.

and here's #4020 in as built and post-accident form:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc4020wka.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc4020gea.jpg

Both 4003 and 4020 came back from the rebuild painted in lightning stripes.

I believe that was a 4-train wreck, not 3. Two passenger, 2 freight, caused by a pipe on the eastbound freight falling off a gondola.

3 trains were involved in the multiple collision.

The eastbound freight from which the steel pipes fell was well clear of the accident site. Ironically, it had been stopped farther east and the crew was reporting missing cargo at the same time the initial report of the collision occurred.

bill8106 said
"I thought that these units were rebuilt with E8 carbodies only and for all intents and purposes with still E7s, i.e., rated at 2000hp. That's why they were still classed as DPA-1 versus DPA-5 after the rebuild, and (perhaps) why they weren't numbered in with the E8s. Any one know the facts?"

The late Harold Crouch of the NYC wrote the following on the aftermath of the Conneaut wreck. This is an excerpt from an article written for the Rochester Chapter newsletter. Although he seems to have mis-remembered the numbers, the story sheds some light on the details of the rebuilds. Harold was an employee, deadheading in one of the passenger trains that was involved in this wreck. He was a Mechanical Engineer, involved with maintaining the early diesels.

jr


Units 4008-4009 were so badly damaged
that the railroad sent the two units back to
LaGrange for EMD to re-build them. By then
E-7 production had ended and model E-8’s
were on the Erecting Floor. Thus when the
two units returned to service, the sported
several E-8 features - notably the grill over
the carbody air intake filters. The units still
retained their 567A oil engines and D4 main
generators. However, in the re-building process
the Vapor Corp. Model 4530 steam
generators were removed and an Elesco
steam generator applied. Thus these units
were plagued from then on till retired and
earned a bad name same as the Alco PA’s
that had Elesco steam generators.
With all the modifications to the two
units, the late Carl Hall, the Assistant Shop
Manager at Harmon Electric Shop, dubbed
the two units E-7.5!

Thanks, people, for all the detailed information!

On a related matter... The two Lima light road switchers that were re-engined with EMD prime movers got what (from the skimpy descriptions I've seen) sounds like the innards of an E-7. Was another NYC E-7 scrapped early?

I second the thanks for the info in this thread.

Regarding the Limas....

According to William Edson's "NYC System Locomotives", Limas #6210 and #6211 (originally 5810 and 5811), class DRSP-5, were re-engined in May 1955 (6211) and Feb 1956 (6210) with 567B V-12s and D-4 generators. E-8s had 567B V-12s and D-15Bs while E-7s had 567As and D-4s. Flipping to the section of the book on E7s and E8s, no E units were involved in a wreck, scrapped or otherwise drastically rebuilt up to that time except the two units already noted.

Therefore I'm guessing that through the course of normal maintenance of both types of E units and other units that were delivered with these engines and generators (e.g., SW-7s and maybe 9s had 567B V-12s, and NW-2s has D-4s), the Central kept spare engines and generators and this combination (567B V-12 and D-4) was available when the Limas were shopped for their rebuild. Again, just a guess...

Thanks, Bill 8106 !
I've never seen the Edson book: from the information various people have quoted from it on Railroad.net forums over the years, this seems to be very much my BAD luck!

I didn't know that the re-engined Limas got 567B engines. The New YorkCentral diagram for them (available from George Elwood's "Fallen Flags" rail image site
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-drsp5m.gif
here)specifies that they had D-4D generators, but only says 567 engines without further specification.
--
EMD models and component types don't correspond exactly. I think (on the basis of some "Diesel Era" article on Union Pacific's EMD switchers years ago) that early SW-9 had 567B engines, later ones 567BC, and a few of the last had 567C. And I've seen elsewhere that some late-production members of the "7" series of EMD locomotives (F7,GP7 etc) had 567C engines.
But certainly the combination of 567B engines and the earlier generator type sounds as if the Limas were re-engined with spares rather than from the remains of an E-7 donor.