What would a High Speed Freight Train look like?

Hmmmmm! This could be the one way we could get a national HSR network going. Moving freight at 150 - 200mph would answer the problem of getting passenger trains that would go that fast. If everything's moving at the same speed, the traffic speed conflict goes away.

i definetly think this is the way to go with high speed rail in the USA .
as to what it would look like , i imagine the frieght system would be somiliar to the airlines container system .
Lite wieght containers would be fitted into carriages , by forklift etc . Trains would be fixed lenght , there wouldnt be any switching , containers simply been removed / added mid journey by forklift .

like this...

exactly , although trains could probably have squarer containers , depending on how rounded the carriages are .

Trouble is freights tend to be really heavy.
High weight and high speeds don't mix, even if the FRA thinks so.

Of course, the French haul mail on special TGVs, but don't expect to see anyone run doublestacks at 150mph.

Further, I don't think even the FRA allows freight to go much faster than 110mph.

Single stack containers on short runs, and a few other things - maybe if you can keep the per car weight down and trains short, but you'd open a lot of HUGE problems...

What huge problems?
most high value merchandise is litewieght , you wouldnt be using doublestacks because of aerodynamics . possibly single stack containers if they could be made sleeker .

Go figure out what the HP to pull 20 100,000 lb cars at 100MPH is, especially if they're not very aerodynamic

And, for 110+mph service, 100k lbs is about the practical limit if you don't want to lose your shirt running the service. If you want to actually make money, lose another 20,000 or more...

You could do some fairly aerodynamic single stacks at those speeds, but not with a diesel...

yes i would think litewieght , short trains , preferably mixed frieght / passenger ( in which case frieght would only be loaded / unloaded at the endpoints ) . I would think electrification would be necessary .
these trains would be competing ( or providing service for ) the likes of fedex , courier compaines , and most likely mail .
most likely full size shipping containers would still go by convential rail .

I would think the nec would be the starting points for such trains , and expansion out from there , as finance allows .

You say "why arent there any high speed freights today?"

I say: Look at the idiots that surround us. If we have problems with keeping passenger trains on the rails (as per the recent METRA incident), and keeping motorists out of railroad crossings, then it is not worth it. It takes more than a mile to stop a train going ~50-60 mph. If you up this number to 150, you're asking for trouble. That is probably why the FRA thinks its a bad idea. Sure, a train can stop in a short time, after hitting an object on the rails. However, with a train going 150 mph, the momentum is much greater and the danger is much higher because freight is not designed to go super fast. Passenger trains can go fast because the cars have been designed for speed, such as the trains in the norhteast corridor, and so on. It would cost way too much to convert every piece of freight to high speed wheelsets/trucks, and then the development of better brakes would be required so that trains can actually stop in an emergency application.


Basically, it's not doable.
That's why we have FedEx Air.

freight is not designed to go super fast

You coulda fooled me. I'm constantly passed on the highway by big rigs doing between 80 and 90 mph. And freight in the air is going about 500 mph.

And in case you didn't get the gist of the thread, it was about having freight operate on TGV-like corridors, which don't have any grade crossings. This is already being done on Germany's ICE network. However, if we were going to try and move the tonnage we currently do on high-speed corridors, they'd have to have some very shallow grades and not ones between 3% and 4% like you'd find on LGV/ICE lines.

My vision for a high speed freight car would look very similar to an auto rack but it would be built like an intermodal well car to achieve the lowest center of gravity possible.

It would be 85 ft long like a typical passenger car and it's center portion would accomodate up to a 53 foot single stack shipping container insertable through the roof. Its fore and aft platforms above the trucks would accomodate package and bulk freight. It would be a bit taller than a typical passenger car but not as tall as a double deck superliner (probably not exceeding Plate F).

There would be three plug-type access doors on each side and bulkheads between the center and end compartments. Close coupling with some sort of aerodynamic diaphragm would fill the space between cars. Suspension would be very similar to modern passenger trucks but beefed up to support the weight and designed for the speed. Loaded weight would probably not exceed 100,000 lbs.

Envision typical Japanese or European double deck high speed passenger cars without windows and with doors as described above and you've got a pretty close approximation of my idea. Shorter 50 or 60 foot cars of identical design that would be typical "box" cars, but not able to accomodate containers (or ones as long) would also be an option. Any palletized, containerized or bulk load can have a car designed for it as long as center of gravity remains low, Low, LOW!

The technology for the motive power exists now. Type of traction, whether catenary, third rail electric or any particular internal-electric type is inconsequential when compared to infrastructure. Straighter and flatter between major terminals would be vastly preferred over designing complexity into equipment to accommodate today's curvatures and grades.

Another dollar three eighty from the land of make believe,

To be honest, I'm not that thrilled with the idea of HS freight. Passenger? Yes. Freight? No.

I live by 2 (actually 3, but now two) different lines and a gravel pit. I don't see how they could haul the tonnage they do now efficiently at high speed. I regularly see 100 car gravel units on the line. At high speed, it would be limited to under 9 cars (150lbs/cu. ft., 10 yards per car).

I don't think Freight would work as HSR too many problems with it.

You wouldnt haul gravel at high speed . this is for high value frieght that is time sensitive . The type of goods that are going by air frieght and by teamster trucks now .
I like the idea of a low slung container wagon , the low center of gravity would allower higher speeds .

In Germany we have a few 100mph- freight-trains.

The so-called PIC (Parcel InterCity). This is an container-train operated by DB and DHL.


There are also InterCargoExpress-Trains which travel as fast as 140km/h (~ 81mph).


Picture: Class 182 electric loco in PIC (DHL) Livery - here with an normal 75mph-Intermodal: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/ele ... 569CFC.jpg


Picture: Two PIC are ready to start at Kornwestheim Yard (near Stuttgart): The right one is pulled by an Class 101 passenger loco: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/ele ... 170005.jpg
The Class 101 belongs to DB Reise und Touristik (German Rail Inter City Passenger Service Division) but the Class 182 belongs to Railion (German Rail Freight Division which also owns Denmarks Rail Freight Division, Dutch Rail Freight Division and Belgian Rail Freight Division).

Railion has enough Class 182 loco to pull all PIC Trains with own Locos - but they lent normally a few 101 for the night services. Dont know why..