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  • Watertown Branch (Guilford)

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

 #131228  by Arborwayfan
 
Bike trails aren't just recreational: in the right place they are transportation. In good weather (most of the time, around here) I ride a bike to work on a bike trail that is mostly a rail trail (along the route of the Pennsy east of Terre Haute, Indiana). I enjoy it almost as much as riding the train we don't have, but it's not exactly recreation. Of course, it's easy to argue for this particuar trail, since Terre Haute doesn't even have the population for decent bus service, let alone light rail, and the ROW is wide enough to put a single-track line in next to the trail anyway, if anyone wanted to do so. Is there room for a rail line and a bike trail on the Lexington branch, for example? Trails and rails can work next to each other (the South Shore Line in Northern Indiana is a good example for part of its route, although to be fair it has a huge ROW.)

What's worst is when nothing happens, like the last mile or so of the Dedham branch between Readville and Dedham, cut by a fill that replaced a shaky bridge a while ago, so there're rails in the ground but no easy way to put in either a trail or a restored rail line.

More arguments in favor of rail trails: 1. public transit works best when people live in relatively dense neighborhoods and don't feel like they need to own one car per adult. (You save a lot more by not owning a car than by not driving a car you own.) People are much more likely to live in dense urban neighborhoods and own fewer cars if it's easy for them to walk (or rollerblade or bike) around for errands and fun. Bike trails make more people think dense, transit-friendly development is nice to live in. As a bonus, dense urban neighborhoods support more local stores, restaurants, etc., than less dense suburban ones, so bike trails help keep jobs and business. In some places they've even attracted stores and bike shops and restaurants along the trails catering to people on bikes (Yellow Springs, Ohio, is a good example).

2. Rail trails have a constituency that would protest tearing them up to put in rails. (I'm sad when I see the rails come out AND I would be sad if I saw a trail come out.) On the other hand, they keep the abutters from getting used to not having anything going on nearby. Bikes are quiet, but a steady stream of chatting people zipping by is hard to ignore. Reviving a long-dead rail line can face a whole nother set of protests by people who've gotten used to not having anything at the end of the back yard or whatever. (See the Greenbush debates, for example.)
 #131547  by MikeB
 
I saw a single engine returning from Newlyweds sometime last week. I think Thursday or Friday.

 #131886  by crash575
 
I went by newlyweds today and there was a covered hopper sitting on the main line in the brush. It was chocked with a piece of scrap wood.
 #132086  by CSX Conductor
 
Arborwayfan wrote:What's worst is when nothing happens, like the last mile or so of the Dedham branch between Readville and Dedham, cut by a fill that replaced a shaky bridge a while ago, so there're rails in the ground but no easy way to put in either a trail or a restored rail line.
But I have to say that the soccer field adjacent to Rte.1 is a good utilization of the unused space. And actually I believe that the first undergrade bridge (heading from Readville) has been removed.
 #134755  by stevefoley
 
ceo wrote:I expect it'll be a bike path within a year of abandonment, assuming any environmental liability issues can be worked out. With a connection through the old Arsenal, it'll enable a bike-path connection from the Minuteman Bikeway to the Charles River paths.
How is it going to connect to the minuteman, i.e. how will it cross the tracks to get to Alewife?

 #134833  by SpecialK
 
Nels Choo: Railroads are primarily a business operation, and freight customers have been drying up in urban areas for many, many years now. Have you noticed that large freight railroad yards have moved miles away from major urban centers? There isn't much the average railfan can do (or even large groups of railfans) to petition any railroad company, large or small, to "bring more trains to their backyard" just so they can watch them. Only the small business owner (that requires occasional rail service) with some political clout might see better results.

The land-use transition from an active railroad corridor to an alternate transportation corridor ("bicycle path") seems natural to me, especially in urban areas where cyclists (except maybe bicycle messengers) and pedestrians prefer routes away from congested roads. I freely admit I'm biased as I enjoy bicycle riding and walking, and think that bicycle paths are just as much fun to explore as abandoned rail lines. Where trains once ran along the shortest distance between two points, so bicycle riders and pedestrians can enjoy alternate means of getting to work via a possibly shorter distance but at the very least away from automobiles and small delivery trucks. Automobile commuters that drive short distances to work (but long commute times due to congestion) may choose to utilize the bicycle path for its ease.

Not every little used or abandoned railroad corridor can be restored to full use, especially in the Northeast, where approximately 130 years ago, powerful railroad corporations built redundant trackage in competition with one another. The abandoned railroad corridors we see today are a testament to this fierce business competition, to how powerful these companies were, as powerful as any major oil producer today.

I would rather see these abandoned corridors preserved as some sort of alternate, non-internal combustion engine transportation corridor - -rather than more real estate development (do we really need another $500,000.00 single family residential house, do we really need another retail store, another commercial strip that would favor the automobile? Do we really need MORE congestion?)

For the case of the Watertown Branch, if it is feasible to make the connection from the Charles River paths to the Minuteman Bikeway, I absolutely think it would make a great addition to the linear "greenways" around Boston. Even if it wasn't a viable connection, perhaps it has value being a greenway in and of itself for the only reason that "undeveloped" real estate is so scarce.

As a big aside, freight railroads have continued their consolidation at the present time, as an example the Union Pacific is one mighty business. Nels Choo, if you haven't already and you want to get a feel for the kind of freight business New England had 100 years ago (with vastly different technology, of course :wink: ), I encourage you to drive along I-80 in Nebraska and watch these 100+ car freight trains, pulled by two or three enormous locomotives, stacked along the double-tracked corridor one behind the other in their respective blocks. You'll see heavy coal trains head east, empty coal hoppers heading west. No sooner one train roars by, just wait a few minutes (you won't be disappointed), and you'll see another headlight coming your way across the High Plains. It's like watching the Logan final approach at dusk, with aircraft headlights stacked one behind the other in the sky.

 #135130  by NellsChoo
 
I think I stepped on a toe or two... I didn't mean to... :(

It is just that I missed all the rail activity in the area, and am rather upset that we have allowed our businesses and industries to dry up. The remaining tracks out there are a part of our history, even if only a tiny part. And I am so old fashion and sentimental, seeing a rail line turned into a non-revenue producing rail trail bothers me. Especially when you drive by one and the people are very rude, bolting out into traffic, etc. I watch for them, but they don't watch for me...

BUT HEY! To each their own! That is what life is all about, opinions and views, right?

 #135213  by johnpbarlow
 
This just in from the STB: Per filing on June 9, Guilford no longer intends to abandon the Watertown Branch within 3 years. However, Georgetown branch, Saugus Branch (operating rights), Danvers Branch segment, Lowell Secondary Track, Wakefield Junction Industrial Track, and Charlestown Branch will likely be abandoned within 3 yrs. And maybe one day the Medford Branch will be abandoned, too.

http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/ ... 214159.pdf

 #135263  by Ron Newman
 
It's not listed in this document, but I expect they will soon file for abandonment of what's left of the Fitchburg Cutoff (aka Central Mass. line) in Somerville, from Somerville Junction to Cedar Street. This is about 1/4 mile long.

The Friends of the Community Path have raised money to help make this filing, so that it can be turned into an extension of the existing Somerville Community Path. Somerville Junction is very likely to be a future Green Line station, so the path would connect the Red Line at Davis to the Green Line at Somerville Jct.
 #135362  by SpecialK
 
Ms. Nels Choo, you didn't step on my toes at all. But what I sometimes see in the railfan community is that they (railfans, and some of them, not all) lose sight, or don't think of freight railroads as a business. It OK to not like that the businesses have dried up, but are we all really responsible for it? Try to look at it in the larger picture, the shift in transporation moved from railroads to roads beginning at the end of the 19th century, and between the 1920's and 1930's, the automobile won. Railroad passenger service first declined, followed by freight. Again, the main driver (in very general terms) behind this shift was business. Or, ordinary people looking for a cheaper, easier way to conduct monetary transactions, in order for profit and efficiency. That's what they did when railroads first came to this country -- think about what people may have felt when the shift went to railroad travel (back in the 1830's and 1840's). I'll bet not all of them were fond of change, in fact Thoreau (here's to you, N.T.) had a few negative comments about the Fitchburg railroad while living on Walden Pond.

I don't mean to get on the soap box (usually do, though), but I am just trying to offer some different food for thought. As you go around photographing trains (one MBCR commuter train just roared by my house, bells ringing and horn blowing - - I like those sounds) think about it in terms of business only: if there's only one customer on the Watertown Branch, should Guilford keep impeccably maintained track there (granted, for safety reasons, it might be kept up a little better :wink:)? Think about what other options does Newlyweds have for deliveries. What does the road system look like around Newlyweds? Is it always congested? What times of the day do they receive deliveries? Is it partially in order to avoid road congestion (if there is any), or is it a purely manufacturing/production question? Or both? You might just wander right in to Newlyweds and ask someone WHY they have commodities still delivered by rail! That might be kind of fun (people may look at you strange, but who cares?)

Also, rail trails are not necessarily non-revenue producing. Along many of them (that have been in existence for 5 or 10 years), one sees ice cream shops or bicycle repair facilities that weren't there before. Old railroad depots are re-utilized as historical societies and supermarkets whose back doors were once utilized for employees simply taking a smoke break are now open to the public, having been expanded and improved as bicycle "rest areas" in order to attract - - - business. Other businesses previously in existence along the old right-of-way have followed suit, opening their doors to the cycling/running/roller-blading/walking public. In fact, in some regions, the entire recreation and tourism industry has been built up around bicycle paths.

And, hey - - if doing something isn't made easy for people, they won't do it. Like driving a car. That's been made very easy to do, and businesses have responded by moving away from railroad lines to commercial strips. If commutes are made easier via bicycle paths, maybe people will focus some of their attention away from automobiles and start cycling again, just like they did in the early years of the 20th century. In fact, the League of American Wheelmen during that time advocated and lobbied for paved roads, simply because they were easier to ride. Funny to think that cyclists had a role in "paving" the way for easier automobile travel, isn't it?

And some, but not all cyclists riding along rail trails will stop to consider the history of what they are riding along. Some is better than none.

Anyway, looks like you'll still get to see some rail deliveries there at Newlyweds. No complaints from me! I'd be interested in hearing why Newlyweds still receives a car or two, so Ms. Nels Choo, if you find out, please let us know on this forum! I'd be interested in hearing about it. You might want to put up a picture or two of the action as well, on NERAIL.
Last edited by SpecialK on Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

 #135376  by TomNelligan
 
Mr. K, in the message above you ponder why Newlyweds still has flour delivered by rail. Simple: it's cheaper for them than trucking it, per reports published elsewhere. They're in the same situation as Eastman Gelatin in Danvers, which is currently paying a premium for truck delivery of acid used in film manufacturing after Guilford embargoed the traffic due to track conditions. As a general rule, rail rates for bulk traffic movements are always less expensive than truck delivery, although rail is slower. And of course Guilford argues that the flour rate to Newlyweds isn't sufficient to support track maintenance on the branch.
 #135433  by SpecialK
 
Hi Tom:

Thanks much for your logical, simple, business answer. I didn't realize rail rates were cheaper vs. truck (somehow I assumed they might be more expensive), but I DO know they are slower. I'll have to take a look around myself at some of those reports and get knowledgeable on that sort of thing. BTW, I enjoy your posts over on the NHRHTA forum. Are you also a member of the R&LHS?

 #135806  by FatNoah
 
Rail can definitely be much cheaper. My aunt works for a company that is the only freight customer on the line from Concord, NH to Lincoln, NH. She said it costs about 4x as much to receive shipments by truck than by rail.

As for Newlyweds, I used to live just off Mt. Auburn St. in Watertown and drove by Newlyweds every day. The trucks take about 5 minutes just to get in their driveway. It's a very tight turn that requires some skillful backing-in.