FY 2014 Operating Budget etc etc etc etc...

[bikentransit]

Funny how the only one promoting NPT in this room is a guy from DVARP.

Rumor has it that Cheltenham and Meadowbrook were burned down by "lightning". In that same area someone mysteriously firebombed the old Bethayres signal tower that controlled the West Trenton diamond crossing back in the 80s. SEPTA has a long history of unwanted assets "disappearing". In any case, SEPTA has always had its own set of ideas on how things are to be done that usually go again what the public wants. Not a shocker. Hopefully this fare system won't be a complete disaster.

Edited, as "insurance lightning" belongs to the world, not just one country. -AlexC

[CComMack]

Funny how the only one promoting NPT in this room is a guy from DVARP.

If this is promoting NPT, I'd hate to see what crapping all over it looks like.

Look, NPT looks pretty good on the transit side. Unfortunately, SEPTA has a bad case of tunnel vision as to how badly they are screwing up the railroad side. Hopefully it's an obvious fiasco, and things can get fixed in short order. If not? Buy a hat, then hang the **** on to it.

[alewifebp]

From a rider standpoint, there is a significant difference between an out of service TVM and and out of service tagging unit. If the TVM is OOS, you can still purchase tickets on the train. If the tagger is OOS, how do you complete your trip? You'll get charged the max for your trip and have to argue it out with customer service to get a refund.

[Amtrak7]

Fare increase approved with these changes:

-TransPass weekly to $24, monthly $91
-56 rides per week / 240 per month cap
-TransPass accepted to Airport on RRD until NPT
-124 and 125 regular fare for travel west of Gulph Mills, also inbound from Wissahickon.

http://septa.org/media/releases/2013/05-23.html

[Matthew Mitchell]

Approval of the operating budget and the capital budget was taken off the agenda, as previously reported. The rollbacks on the TransPass amount to an estimated $3 to $4 million per year: not as much as DVARP was looking for, but a win nonetheless. The 124/125 is also a win, and we'll continue to work on trying to get the NHSL surcharge reversed too.

[sammy2009]

I was just coming here to see if anything had been posted. I read it. I'll be honest I'm still on the fence about ride cap, stupid I know but. SEPTA did some leeway by upping the ride cap +6 on weekly passes and +40 on monthlys and having the weekly's on Airport Line until NPT on RR Side. Also $24 weekly's and $91monthlys. Now how about the turnstiles that everyone is up in arms about have they spoke on that or plan to ?.

[Matthew Mitchell]

The adjustment to pass limits at least avoids punishing the reverse commuters who often have multi-vehicle trips. Take a hypothetical rider from West Philadelphia who's just been promoted to assistant manager at a store at the KOP mall. Her commute is 52 bus/MFSE/NHSL/124 bus. You get to the holiday season and her boss asks her to work an extra day or two, and she could have run up into a situation where she would go over the limit and be charged $5.30 for a one-way trip because transfer charges are so punitive and there'd be a new surcharge on the NHSL on top of that.

But I was very disappointed that the SEPTA brass refused to make the limits "smart." The system already knows which trips are transfer trips, since it has to know whether to charge a pay-per-ride customer $1.80 or $1.00. It would be trivial to configure the system not to count transfer trips against the limit. Then they could actually lower the limit and do more to deter the real abuses.

But my impression from our last-ditch meeting is that there are some people at 1234 who really want to charge those most-frequent users more.

[Matthew Mitchell]

Now how about the turnstiles that everyone is up in arms about have they spoke on that or plan to ?.

Stopping that at this point would be virtually impossible. Once management got the contract pushed through (2011), they could then tell the board: "You don't like the way gating Center City is going to work out? OK, you can pay tens of millions to break the contract or you can do it our way."

That's the old SEPTA attitude, which still hasn't been fully rooted out yet. We were up before the board and the counties back then, warning people they were about to lock themselves into a system which still hasn't been fully explained to the public yet and which is still problematic. But they didn't heed us: they were too interested in making nice with the new management.

[sammy2009]

This is a disaster waiting to happen like one gentleman at the board meeting said what happens if they are on the wrong side of the platform and need to cross over and have to re tap nonsense. Those new turnstiles can go in the subways screw it. SEPTA Should have known before signing the contract that ppl would be upset with the turnstiles and gateing. They was sneaky and so in a rush to do so.

[JeffK]

... what happens if they are on the wrong side of the platform and need to cross over and have to re tap?

How will they handle riders making a transfer at one of the CC stations? I'm going to the airport next month, coming in on the R5 - I mean Paoli Line - and switching to the Airport Line at 30th St. Today all I do is show my ticket. But when NPT is in place, will it be smart enough to see the two legs as a linked trip, especially because the trains go through the station in opposite directions? From the sounds of things that may not be the case.

Or worse yet, suppose you have a layover during your transfer. Are you going to be stuck on the platform with no opportunity to run downstairs for a cup of coffee, or heaven forbid, to use the bathroom because SEPTA is still in "you can hold it" mode?

Fare increase approved with these changes:
. . .
-124 and 125 regular fare for travel west of Gulph Mills, also inbound from Wissahickon.

That's a MAJOR win for local riders. But it shouldn't have required the combined efforts of DVARP and the entire Upper Merion Board of Supervisors to get SEPTA to back off. Like not accepting Transpasses on the Airport Line, the gang at 1234 saw an opportunity for more revenue but never thought through the consequences.

Based on the press release it appears the surcharge will remain on the 123 - correct? That's still a serious distortion because it means a (again possibly hypothetical) passenger not using a pass will pay the same fare to Upper Darby as someone riding the 124/125 into Center City, but the 123 passenger will also have to cough up an extra buck for an El transfer.

The only possible gain would be that a higher base fare would discourage use of the 123 for local service along West Chester Pike. During its first year the 123 ran express between the Blue Route and Upper Darby, exit-only inbound and board-only outbound, but SEPTA downgraded it to local service after people along WC Pike complained*. That added maybe 20-25% to the trip time, so maybe if fewer people use it as a local it can regain some speed.

(*) I understand that someone waiting along the Pike might be distressed if a bus blows by in the inner lane, but that's SOP for rail service. I'm not sure I really see a distinction.

[Matthew Mitchell]

How will they handle riders making a transfer at one of the CC stations?

The paid areas of Market East and Suburban Station will allow for transfers from one platform to the other without going through the turnstiles. 30th Street, see below.

Or worse yet, suppose you have a layover during your transfer. Are you going to be stuck on the platform with no opportunity to run downstairs for a cup of coffee, or heaven forbid, to use the bathroom because SEPTA is still in "you can hold it" mode?

SEPTA promises(#) that they will arrange it so you can exit and re-enter within a specified period and not be charged extra.

Based on the press release it appears the surcharge will remain on the 123 - correct?

Yes. And the NHSL.

#--altogether too much of the fixes for problems customers are going to have with NPT are promises rather than commitments enforceable through the tariffs.

[MACTRAXX]

Matt and Everyone: I read the fare changes for the July 2013 fare increase and I noticed the introduction
of "caps" on rides for Monthly and Weekly passes - Are these changes going into effect with the new fares
or with the introduction of the NPT system within the next two years?

I was of the observation that the current fare system is not sophisticated enough to have "caps" on multi-
use passes programmed in and "caps" would be covered under the coming NPT system...

I noticed nothing mentioned about tokens - What will the new token price be and does SEPTA have a "timetable"
on how they plan to eliminate the use and sale of tokens?

The interesting part of the introduction of the NPT system is how it will cover the Regional Rail system as most
of us here know...

MACTRAXX

[rslitman]

Fare increase approved with these changes:

-TransPass weekly to $24, monthly $91
-56 rides per week / 240 per month cap
-TransPass accepted to Airport on RRD until NPT
-124 and 125 regular fare for travel west of Gulph Mills, also inbound from Wissahickon.

http://septa.org/media/releases/2013/05-23.html

This is more of a vague article. My big interest is whether the weekly Cross County Pass that was proposed has been improved.

As for the weekly and monthly caps, I thought these were planned for the computerized system to go into effect next year.

[sammy2009]

I guess we shall see later this year, since SEPTA is planning to have selected ppl do a test of the new NPT...But they sure is taking forever with the upgraded turnstiles and vending machines. I know the SmartCards have already been ordered a good 1,000,000 Million of them. I wonder what happens when you dont use all of your 56 or 240 rides ?

[loufah]

After the last fare increase, paper tickets bought prior to July 1 were only good until Aug 31. Is that the case this time? I have a bunch of Independence passes and am wondering if they'll all become worthless in 3 months.