West Shore restoration (aka "real" River Line)

[BlockLine_4111]

I'd suspect the demographics of train riders from towns where the average house sells in the $600,000 to a million range is pretty impressive. Here are some Bergen towns, compared to traditional M&E train riding towns. Source: Today's Star Ledger.

Bergen
Alpine $1.892mn
Creskill $682,000
Haworth $643,000
Norwood $616,000
Rockleigh $2.1mn

M&E Line
Millburn/Short Hills $930,000
Summit $840,000
Chatham (Avg) $568,000
Madison $581,000 (adj Harding is over a million)

I suspect the Raritan Valley line thru Westfield, Scotch Plains, and the Gladston Line would come up with similar findings.

Any figures or estimates on Harrington Park and Mendham?

[harryguy082589]

Any updates?

[northjerseybuff]

Haven't seen or heard anything on this in ages. Last I heard Warrington stated in many years out, he would like train service on this corridor. I guess its just dead now? A search on the NJT website does yield results

[cobra30689]

IIRC, the West Shore used to be four tracks wide from the Overpeck Creek bridge to Dumont back in the 50s. I think the ROW is still wide enough for at least two…why not lay down another track à la River Line where the passenger track runs parallel to the old freight main, and run DMUs? Just a thought…
Matt

[Steve F45]

there is room for a second track from cp10 north to the border. But lots of work needed. I forget how many crossings somone mentioned there were between new bridge road and the state line. Where do you hold the trains overnight?

[Frogger]

Looks like about 25 grade crossing until the siding in Valley Cottage, NY. 17 of which are in NJ.

[Irish Chieftain]

IIRC, the West Shore used to be four tracks wide from the Overpeck Creek bridge to Dumont back in the 50s. I think the ROW is still wide enough for at least two

Still enough room for four tracks up as far as Dumont, apart from some encroached areas close to Little Ferry. There are three tracks through Teaneck; but only one track through Bergenfield.

why not lay down another track a la River Line, where the passenger track runs parallel to the old freight main, and run DMUs? Just a thought

DMUs (like the Colorado Railcar one) can run on any FRA track. They do not need separate trackage per se. Your assessment of how things are done on the "other River Line" (I assume you mean Trenton-Camden) is incorrect; there are no separate freight and passenger tracks, apart from Pavonia Yard, and freight and passenger are separated by a time-share waiver imposed by the FRA.

As for your idea, that's what CSX wanted NJ Transit to do. However, this would not work very well once you get north of Dumont, where the ROW goes back to having room for two tracks max. Any expansion back to the former configuration would benefit CSX more than they expect, and there would be no impediments to freight movements; however, CSX apparently is no sport at pitching in insofar as capital funds…

[cobra30689]

They do not need separate trackage per se. Your assessment of how things are done on the "other River Line" (I assume you mean Trenton-Camden) is incorrect; there are no separate freight and passenger tracks, apart from Pavonia Yard

Irish, this will teach me not to chime in on the area of the state I have never been It was pictures of the Pavonia Yard area that led me to that assumption. Ooops.

Small sidebar. I used to work in Bergenfield(Mullane Ford, one block from the tracks)...one of the older cops I knew remembered there was a yard just north of the W. Madison Ave grade crossing in the NYC days. Presume it was where the locals would tie up. I dont know if the land it was on has been developed though....

[northjerseybuff]

Well, to throw a wrench into things. I wonder what would happen if CSX were to double track from CP10-22? It is a possibilty as this is their bottleneck area now. There were never 3 tracks north of Dumont correct?

My idea was to connect up the Northern and the west shore projects. Do the Northern all the way up to either Northvale or Norwood..or even into New York state..run west over the former Erie branch(which one is this?) then run along the west shore into Nyack-haverstraw..kinda the best of both worlds. I know its not good for NJ..but with the lack of funds..get one done and get NYS involved and you have something..

[cookieman]

Dumont yard was closed in June of 1958 when all mid-day, Saturday/Sunday and all trains north of West Haverstraw were discontinued. A new housing development was built on the site. There was still about 5,000 commuters using the service until March of 1959, when the ferries were discontinued.

There were eleven trains in the AM to Weehawken. Nine left from West Haverstraw NY and two left from West Norwood NJ. In the PM, ten trains went to West Haverstraw and two terminated at West Norwood. At the end of service in December of 1959, about 250 commuters were using the service, mostly from Rockland County.

I also remember that in 1964 a piggyback trailer broke free of its mooring in a snowstorm. The freight made it up to Dumont, when the car hit the foundation of DU tower at the site of the old Dumont yard. The train derailed more than a few freight cars in peoples' back yards.

[DocJohn]

Cookieman, sounds like you and I may have been covering the same territory around 1960 or so.

What I would really like to see is some pictures of the signals at DU looking north from Madison Avenue. If one looked south from the wooden bridge in Haworth, one could see the home signals for DU. When I was growing up, I remember family members complaining that the whistles from the steam locomotives would wake them up at night when the engineers of southnbound freights tried to awaken the operator at DU.

Someone needs to get the maps out and look at the width of the right of iway north of Dumont. As I write this, I am lookng at a picture of the Haworth Station and Freight House that was probably taken from between the tracks at Haworth Avenue. Picture was taken before the lean-to and platform was built on the westside of the tracks. There is clearly enough room for a third track; and at one time, there was a siding that was noth of Haworth Avenue on the east side of the tracks. Also, even after passenger trains ended, there was still a siding in service at the north end of Dumont yard that came into the northbound main just south of the wooden bridge.

DocJohn
Macon, GA

[Steve F45]

docjohn, could you post those pics?

[DocJohn]

Picture I described came from a brochure for the Forest Glen development. Brochure is dated Spring 1937 and came from Contant Securities Corporation 144 Main Street Hackensack, Telephone HAckensack 2-0123. What I have is a photocopy of the what could have been the original brochure. I do not know what sort of archival material is maintained by the local libraries as well as the Bergen County Library. If I can get a new slide scanner, I can get some 1960 pictures up. How do I post pictures to this forum?

John

[Irish Chieftain]

You can't post pics to this forum. You'd have to upload them to a photograph-specific site (like this or this) and then remote-link to the image in a post.

[northjerseybuff]

I wonder if the west shore service will come into play again with Sarles as the new ED. Being that its so close to the Northern..why not jus tpick the Northern and go with that?