• Newark, Delaware Extension - SEPTA Connection

  • Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.
Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.

Moderators: mtuandrew, therock, Robert Paniagua

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  by STrRedWolf
 
Try again, it works for me.
  by Arlington
 
Big PDF takes a while for its dowload and opening to get negotiated, is my guess.
  by andrewjw
 
Build Scenario 1, 2 & 3

In addition to the 2040 no-build scenario, three build scenarios were evaluated. The first build scenario is based on information provided by MTA which assumed doubling the frequencies of the Penn Line during peak hours for testing purpose only. This scenario was used to determine an upper limit for the potential demand for the corridor, although operating at this increased frequency would be infeasible based on current capacity restrictions. Comparing the transit headways coded in the MWCOG, BMC, and DVRPC models, the proposed schedule reduces the headway by 50% and off peak headways are unchanged. Standard practice is to assume wait time is to be half of headways. Thewait time was reduced by half between TAZ pairs served by the extension for peak periods. This build scenario assumes the rail route is connected but does not account for the speed differences between MARC and SEPTA.

The second build scenario differs by assuming transfers at Newark for both peak period and off peak period. The transfer time is added by identifying the arrival and departure times for MARC and SEPTA service. Additional boarding time was added to TAZ pairs that are served by the extensions that use the Newark station.

The third build scenario is based on the new schedule “MARC Exercise #1a – schedule with express service.xlsx” provided by WILMAPCO. The new schedule was compared with the first build scenario and additional wait time was added to the TAZ pairs crossing through the Newark station. The seven- to eight-minute transfer time at Newark in the daily last run for both northbound and southbound was not accounted for due to model limitations. The detailed headways for all scenarios can be found in Table 4.
From the above (pages 6-7)
  by ThirdRail7
 
FWIW. They've talked about it for years. Let's see some real planning.

https://www.delawarepublic.org/post/law ... in-station

A resolution in the General Assembly would direct DelDOT to work with Maryland and Pennsylvania, Amtrak and other regional entities to strengthen the rail service across all three states.

The goal is to fill a 20 mile gap in service for regional rail, the area between Newark and Perryville, Maryland.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Reminds of the Chesapeake, an Arrow/Silverliner train in the late 70s.
  by MACTRAXX
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:25 pm Reminds of the Chesapeake, an Arrow/Silverliner train in the late 70s.
R36: The "Chesapeake" ran from May 1978 to October 1983.
The Amtrak train numbers were #420 and #421 later #470 and #471.
This train was subsidized by the Maryland Department of Transportation and
the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. Delaware did not contribute
to the operation and for that matter withdrew support for SEPTA Rail service
to Wilmington and Newark, DE during the early 1980s.

Leased Jersey Arrow (A2 later A3 MU cars) were used in "Chesapeake"
service along with the Conrail/Amtrak Baltimore-Washington commuter trains
during the same time period (1978-1983) on this route.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_(train)

For the record if both SEPTA (DelDot) and MARC can come to some sort of an
agreement that Amtrak (as "landlord") can live with through commuter service
between Wilmington (and north) and Baltimore (and south) can be introduced.
MACTRAXX
  by STrRedWolf
 
MACTRAXX wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:52 pm For the record if both SEPTA (DelDot) and MARC can come to some sort of an
agreement that Amtrak (as "landlord") can live with through commuter service
between Wilmington (and north) and Baltimore (and south) can be introduced.
MACTRAXX
I'd bet they get MD and DE to pay for a third track between PRINCE and BACON. MD would then study a new Elkton station near North Bridge Street (to use the bridge for pedestrian cross-overs).
  by njtmnrrbuff
 
Getting that third track between Bacon and Prince Interlocking would be up to Amtrak since it's considered the Northeast Corridor and Amtrak can make its own decisions when it comes time for the Northeast Corridor. That third track between Bacon and Prince is paramount since MARC will be running north of Perryville to Newark. Not just MARC, but Amtrak wants to run Acelas every 30 minutes between NYP-WAS. Building that station in Elkton is a must. Having a second platform at Perryville Station on the other side of the NEC is crucial.
  by STrRedWolf
 
njt/mnrrbuff wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:13 pm Getting that third track between Bacon and Prince Interlocking would be up to Amtrak since it's considered the Northeast Corridor and Amtrak can make its own decisions when it comes time for the Northeast Corridor. That third track between Bacon and Prince is paramount since MARC will be running north of Perryville to Newark. Not just MARC, but Amtrak wants to run Acelas every 30 minutes between NYP-WAS. Building that station in Elkton is a must. Having a second platform at Perryville Station on the other side of the NEC is crucial.
Given that the service would mainly benefit Maryland and Delaware, and that Amtrak's budget is constantly kept at a "maintain service" level by Congress (see the Amtrak forum for details on that), having the states fund the track and station improvements would quickly get Amtrak on board.

And yes, you need to build a second platform at Perryville (although a high-level platform on both sides is best), and a new station in Elkton (the old one looks like to not have a cross-over).

A "wish list" idea is to have a dedicated fly-over north-east of Perryville so that MARC trains can unload on the northbound track, then go north, fly-over the entire set, then reverse for southbound service on the southbound track. The problem here is locating exactly where...
  by njtmnrrbuff
 
Installing high level platforms at Perryville and Elkton are a must. Not many MARC trains continue north of Baltimore Penn Station and we have to ask ourselves the question-will all of the trains that head to Perryville continue their runs to NRK after service officially begins. If it's in the plan to have all of the Perryville trains continue to NRK, then the flyover probably wouldn't make sense. This may be related to the MARC extension from Perryville to Newark, Del-it might be a good idea for Maryland to consider adding high level platforms on both sides at Martin State Airport Station. If Maryland can make the rest of the stations north of Baltimore Penn Station high level platform, that that would be good. The platforms are along straight tracks, I think. Just remember that even after MARC is extended to Newark, Delaware, people will still take Amtrak.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Of course. I bumped into a guy last year at Baltimore Penn who regularly came in from Philly 30th street -- enough to get an Amtrak commuter pass.
  by Pensyfan19
 
njt/mnrrbuff wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:46 am Installing high level platforms at Perryville and Elkton are a must. Not many MARC trains continue north of Baltimore Penn Station and we have to ask ourselves the question-will all of the trains that head to Perryville continue their runs to NRK after service officially begins. If it's in the plan to have all of the Perryville trains continue to NRK, then the flyover probably wouldn't make sense. This may be related to the MARC extension from Perryville to Newark, Del-it might be a good idea for Maryland to consider adding high level platforms on both sides at Martin State Airport Station. If Maryland can make the rest of the stations north of Baltimore Penn Station high level platform, that that would be good. The platforms are along straight tracks, I think. Just remember that even after MARC is extended to Newark, Delaware, people will still take Amtrak.
This should be a top priority for MARC with the stimulus being a main discussion on this site (and maybe even Baltimore to York, PA or Harrisburg service? :-D ). A flyover at Perryville would not be necessary but rather a second platform at the other side of the station would be needed since it would no longer be the terminus for the Penn line.
Another thing to think about too is that once MARC goes to Newark, DE, this would fill the commuter gap between Perryville and Newark, essentially allowing for commuter service from New York to DC! NJT from Penn to Trenton, SEPTA from Trenton to Philly, SEPTA from Philly to Newark, MARC from Newark to DC. All for a lower price than Amtrak (even though this idea would take much longer.) That's what I plan on doing once this extension opens. Not to mention once Penn Station access, Shore Line East extension to Westerly and MBTA extension to Kingston and eventually Westerly is completed, you could also take commuter rail from DC to Boston! :P
  by njtmnrrbuff
 
I wouldn't count on many people using these commuter trains as the cheapest way to travel all the way from NYP-DC given the fact that in the end, the trip may take several hours. We can't just factor in the train rides themselves. We have to factor in how much layover time we have between trains. It's possible that in the beginning, the level of service to NRK may not be very frequent and only during the week. Remember that presently Septa rail service to NRK is infrequent and only runs during the week too. Most Septa trains that head to Delaware end in Wilmington. Not all Septa trains continue beyond Marcus Hook. Even though not related to this forum, the SLE extension to Westerly is probably a pipe dream for now and the same thing goes with MBTA to Kingston, RI.
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