Amtrak Seating Discussion: Assigned, First-Come, Reserved, Unreserved, Standees

[JimBoylan]

"Congress Critter" is a modern, Politically Correct, non sexist term that doesn't force a particular gender on the target.

[Arborwayfan]

If Joe Biden gets extra credit for something, it's for deciding to live at home in Delaware with his kids while serving as a senator, instead of living apart from them or dragging them with him. Taking the train back and forth was just common sense; it's one of the things the Corridor is for. To work at the Capitol, within spitting distance of WUS, and live near Wilmington and commute some other way would have been pretty silly.

[Jeff Smith]

Bet Amtrak Joe always had a seat! Any any other Congress Critters along the NEC....

He chose to ride Acela BusinessClass (as opposed to Acela FirstClass) on his final ride out of Washington as Vice President. The choice of seat wasn't publicized but I found it meaningful nonetheless that he didn't takeup any FirstClass inventory with the Second Lady and the accompanying security detail.

Thanks for that rejoinder.

I don't appreciate the undertone of basically irrelevant snideness that often crops up here. I appreciate your willingness to engage with it at a more constructive level.

Would it be acceptable if we routinely referred to moderators as "moderator critters". If not, I think the term should generally be banned.

Was my remark snide? Absolutely. And while I appreciate the rejoinder (great word!) as well, I'm not going to apologize as I think it was apt in this case, and borne of a general bias concerning politicians. As others have noted, former VP Biden is hereon often referred to as Amtrak Joe, although his support of rail is and was appreciated by many including myself.

You are more than welcome to refer to us as "moderator critters"; I have a sense of humor. Although I would point out I'm an owner/admin critter LOL. But it's all good.

Now let's get back to the seat discussion.

[Tadman]

I'm going to start referring to lawyers are "legal critters."

Fine by me and I am a lawyer.

Seconded. We have certainly earned that appellation. There are some lawyers out there that have really earned it.

Also, if you haven't seen the Charlie Wilson movie, take a look. I enjoy it for entertainment value, but it's a "everything that's wrong with congress" story. Somehow Tom Hanks gives it a feel of way too much respectability, and I think Charlie Wilson would've been far better cast as Charlie Sheen or the Shooter McGavin guy. Basically he stays in office for a decade banking favors and not making waves, then uses all his favors to up the funding for a proxy war that turns around and bites us in the behind as the Afghanistan conflict. We'e now been in that war longer than the Soviets we were trying to hassle through our proxy, the Mujahedeen. If we had just stayed out, there's a chance 9/11 wouldn't have happened and the Afghanistan and Iraq wars wouldn't have happened.

All because he wanted a piece of tail from Julia Roberts (and a few college coeds that make appearances as well).

[Jeff Smith]

...now back to your regularly scheduled programming LOL.

[SouthernRailway]

If Joe Biden gets extra credit for something, it's for deciding to live at home in Delaware with his kids while serving as a senator, instead of living apart from them or dragging them with him. Taking the train back and forth was just common sense; it's one of the things the Corridor is for. To work at the Capitol, within spitting distance of WUS, and live near Wilmington and commute some other way would have been pretty silly.

As a member of Congress, Joe Biden also got to deduct those travel expenses and was reimbursed for some of them.

He also used campaign funds for some of those trips and got a special Amtrak discounted pass, not available to the public. See https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/worl ... 38021.html

I don’t find that to be deserving of extra credit.

I find that to be benefiting from perks that the rest of us don’t have.

Isn’t it nice not have to uproot your family when you get a new job, since you are part of the body that writes rules governing this, to your own benefit. The world doesn’t work that way for the rest of us.

[Arborwayfan]

Um, Southern Railway, I think you are forgetting that senators and representatives are required by law to maintain a residence in their state or district. (We had a bit of a scandal here in Indiana a few years back when some people said one had not.) Their job requires them to travel back and forth between Washington and their state/district so that they can attend Congress and meet constituents and local officials. If Biden had lived in DC he'd have been counting all his trips back to Delaware for the in-state part of his job as business expenses (and all his trips their to campaign and campaign expenses). And he'd have been right. You get a new job in a new place, you move. Sure. But when you get a new job that needs you to work in two places and doesn't allow you to change your legal residence, you get help paying for all the travel.

That's about the unusual requirements of being a senator or a rep, but it's the same basic principle that applies to anyone who travels for work.
We could argue about the special Amtrak discount (I know no details about it) but those travel reimbursements are not special perks; they are fair reimbursement for real business expenses incurred by people who work for us when they do their job the way we want them to. Any person who is required to travel as part of their job is entitled to be reimbursed by their employer without that counting as taxable income or (at least until 2019; I'm not sure of the current tax law) to deduct any unreimbursed work travel expenses from their taxable income. College professor, HVAC tech, travelling salesman -- travel for your employer's convenience is at the very least tax deductible for everyone (at least through 2018) and often paid for by employers.

We are now completely and totally off topic, but I'm not letting those claims go.

[SouthernRailway]

Please consider reading the New York Times article and Googling “Joe Biden Amtrak pass campaign funds” for details if you’re unfamiliar with them. The Washington Post also has details.

Arborway, I’ve had a job in one city and a home in another, many states away.

I rented a very inexpensive apartment in the city where I worked and commuted on weekends. I paid for it all myself (other than the handful of trips that my employer paid for during the first 6 months).

Eventually it got to be too expensive and time-consuming so I moved full-time and uprooted my life due to the job. And my salary was higher than Joe Biden’s.

Joe Biden maintained/s a $3 million home in Delaware, financed through a below-market mortgage rate given to him because of his status. That’s not necessary; he could have kept a low-cost apartment there and commuted on weekends. And he did pay for a lot of that Amtrak travel through reimbursements and deductions unavailable to the rest of us, such as campaign funds. And his low-cost Amtrak pass is unavailable to the general public. That’s all reported by the New York Times.

How many people on a sub-$200k salary (or even a higher one) can afford a $3 million house and Amtrak commutes many times per week?

This is not an attack on Biden, who I am generally OK with; this is an attack on Senators who write the rules to favor themselves and their financial interests, giving themselves benefits that the rest of us don’t have. Some people may be OK with that. I am not. And visions of Joe Biden- and visions of any Senator- as an average working person who commutes like the rest of us- miss that.

[Arborwayfan]

Hi, Southern Railway. I'm not arguing the facts of the various business expense and campaign reimbursements, or the cheap Amtrak pass. And I don't think a bank had to give a Senator a below-market mortgage. Or that anyone needs a $3 million house.

All I'm saying is that being a senator is a job that happens in two places. It's not the same as living in one place and commuting to a job someplace else. So at least some of their travel back and forth is not commuting, it's business travel, the same as if my employer wanted me to work every third week in another state. And they have to travel to and around their states to campaign. So the general concept that a senator's travel between DC and their state is part travel for work and part campaign travel seems correct to me.

Might the rules be lax or the reimbursements too generous? Sure. Is your general position unreasonable? No.

I'm sorry if I came on a little angry before.

[SouthernRailway]

Arborway, you're completely fine. Your position is completely reasonable. I think I'm the one who owes you the apology, as I'm the one who can get all riled up too easily online. You're good.

[Arborwayfan]

No, I think you're fine, too. It's a sign of how civil this board is that we both thought we might have crossed a line.

Now back to seating:
1. Does anyone have any suggestions for actually getting any of the things we talk about wanting? Such as, if ten or twenty people who post here calling for reserved seating all wrote to Amtrak on the same day, and cc'd our senators, could it have more of an effect that just us talking about it? And could right now be a good moment?

2. Are there particular trains or types of trains that people think should be unreserved? If so, is the combination of unreserved coach and reserved business class (which I think I remember from when the Illini was unreserved) enough of an opportunity to reserved a seat, or would it make sense in some cases for there to be separate reserved and unreserved coaches?

[ExCon90]

As to 1, don't know how Amtrak would react--I've seen my share of canned responses from someone who obviously didn't actually read what I sent
--but I think it's necessary to ensure that the communications, in whatever form, all have different wording from each other.

As to 2, I can see that equipment shortages impel Amtrak to require reservations on the NEC, but I'm sure there are passengers who would be willing to stand if necessary as long as they can get on the train they want. I think one unreserved coach should be provided on each Regional train and passengers unable to obtain a reservation permitted to ride in that coach with the understanding that they may not find a seat when they board. Back in the day, there were no coach reservations on Corridor trains on the PRR, and provision for unexpected crowds was made by having "protect" coaches, fully depreciated, at the ready, including a station "shifter"--PRR parlance--at Baltimore and 30th St., something Amtrak certainly can't do today.

[Arborwayfan]

Hi, Tadman,
You got me thinking when you said IP shouldn't have assumed business people wanted dome seats. How many of the people in Business class are travelling on business? I think IP just shouldn't have called it "Business". If they could have called it "Dome," like tourist railroads do, it would have been perfect. That's what they were charging extra for. I rode it once, and you're right: it was too noisy for easy work (not that I wanted to work) and not so comfortable for the long haul.
For the record, I agree that selling table seats as Business would be silly, even though I keep saying Amtrak should use extra V-diners as reserved table seating on routes where lots of people do paperwork. Business Class means "bigger than coach but not quite first class". If they sell table seating, they should call it "Table" and point out the low back and tell whether it's in a quiet work car or a busy lounge car. For those of you fortunate enough not to have read my earlier posts , I think Amtrak should look into putting a whole extra V-diner or other table car on trains like the Illini and Saluki that need axles and have a lot of students and professors and college administrators travelling relatively short distances, and selling specific tickets for a "quiet table work car". Charge one passenger a bit more than coach for half a table; charge two pax together each a coach fare and give them the same half table. But I don't think the Cardinal quite fits those specs.

[Tadman]

There's something to be said about renaming the classes, which are not constant across the system anyway, to something that reflects the actual service.

"Tourist" or "Economy" would be Metra-like seats. Megabus has seats like this and sells out all day long. It would be great for college-oriented routes like Illini. $5 wifi, no streaming.

"Plus" or "Premium" could be today's current coach seats. These seats are enormous and very comfy. They could probably command a premium in price if there were economy seats in a few coaches. This might draw the non-business "I need premium" crowd out of business class and give them a place to laugh and have fun.

"Commerce" could be the new business, which is actually targeted at business. A premium seat, good tray tables, free fast wifi. A quiet waiting room and priority boarding at places like Detroit, where business is currently lumped in with coach in a gross old building.

[Jeff Smith]

That's very much the airline model nowadays... basic economy, main cabin, comfort plus, business, first.