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  • Amtrak Seating Discussion: Assigned, First-Come, Reserved, Unreserved, Standees

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1515954  by electricron
 
As a retiree well within my senior years, I do not like riding standing. In just a few minutes my back gives out and I am in pain. On subways and light rail trains, the ride is relatively short and there are hand holds and straps to hold onto while standing. I have yet, after decades of riding Amtrak trains, to find one of these contraptions on Acela, Superliners, Amfleets, or Horizon cars. If they can not find me a seat, within minutes I will be sitting or lying in the aisle.
 #1515972  by mtuandrew
 
SouthernRailway wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:01 amAgreed, especially as the description of what you get for buying an Amtrak reserved ticket is at odds with reality.

You can’t promise a car buyer a 2019 Rolls-Royce, give him a 1987 Yugo and then point to a clause hidden away in the paperwork that says that any disputes will be decided by a seller-paid arbitrator in Juneau, Alaska, either, and count on it to hold up.
Fair point. All of that said, having to stand for half a trip on Amtrak (or move to a cafe seat) and complain to Julie, then videoconference with an arbitrator based in Washington should your complaint not be addressed through several levels of management (which it would almost certainly be, through refunds, vouchers and/or miles), is a considerably lower bar than a bait-and-switch involving a Yugo road trip. Amtrak is still providing you transportation after all, and is bargaining that you probably won’t bother with a lawyer to challenge the legality of their arbitration clause.
 #1515993  by SouthernRailway
 
mtuandrew wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:22 pm Amtrak is still providing you transportation after all, and is bargaining that you probably won’t bother with a lawyer to challenge the legality of their arbitration clause.
Yes, I think you're right (I hope we agree that Amtrak advertises a seat but doesn't provide that, though).

That's a pretty ratty way to run a business:

"We won't sell you the product that we advertise, but we figure you're too dumb/poor/weak/busy to do anything about it."
 #1516004  by mtuandrew
 
SouthernRailway wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:46 pmYes, I think you're right (I hope we agree that Amtrak advertises a seat but doesn't provide that, though).

That's a pretty ratty way to run a business:

"We won't sell you the product that we advertise, but we figure you're too dumb/poor/weak/busy to do anything about it."
I do agree. It would go a long way for Amtrak tickets to state,

“The National Rail Passenger Corporation (Amtrak), its employees, subcontractors, vendors and representatives will make every effort to provide suitable accommodations to its rail and Thruway bus passengers. However, Amtrak does not and cannot guarantee a seat in the event of service disruption (including equipment failure and Acts of God) or abnormal traffic volume. In the event of such a disruption, passengers are invited to contact Amtrak Customer Service at (xxx) xxx-xxxx; Amtrak will make every effort to mutually resolve the issue. The customer does have the right to appeal Amtrak’s decision to (name and address), a neutral arbiter whose decision shall be final and not subject to judicial review.”

That is, state their intention but make known the limitations, and invite compromise but put a firm boundary in place.
 #1531853  by Arborwayfan
 
This seems like a good place to bring together discussion of some aspects of the two seating-related incidents of the last week or so, and of similar incidents and patterns: Ms. Ifils and the group of passengers in wheelchairs. In each case, part of the situation involved Amtrak's patchy and erratic system for seating passengers who hold reserved tickets.
Imagine if Amtrak's ticketing system (a) collected information about a passenger's special needs, (b) described the various accessibility options right on the ticketing screen, and (c) assigned each passenger a seat in some way. (Leave the question of whether each passenger chose a seat so they could get their preferred side/car/etc. or whether a computer would assign seats a day or so before the trip depending on how many people were travelling between the possible station pairs on that particular run. Just assume that pax arrive at the station knowing their car and seat number.) The Assistant Conductor on the Crescent would have had no reason to try to clear space in a car for passengers boarding at the next stop (and therefore no excuse to bother Ms. Ifils for racist reasons, if that is what happened); in turn, Ms. Ifils would have had a clear right to a particular seat. The people in wheelchairs would have been able to submit their information online and the computer system could have automatically sent a message to the person in charge of the hypothetical backup car with extra wheelchair spaces to assign it to the train where it was needed. A lot of hassle, hurt feelings, ambiguous situations that might have been racist or ablist, etc., would have been eliminated.
And, of course, all the other little hassles of full trains without reserved seats would have been eliminated: people boarding early in the morning struggling to find a seat among the sleeping passengers in coach, families and groups trying to sit together, conductors and attendants working out their own paper systems to try to help but making some people angry (see the long thread about Chicago boarding policies, for example), etc.
Two more incidents that I saw in person this summer, while boarding the the CONO in Chicago on June 22, 2019: (1) a middle-aged woman and her elderly mother, who could not walk so well, were waiting by the gate with a couple other adult family members who came to see them off. They told the gate agents that their mother needed help getting to the train and her seat. The agents apparently couldn't get hold of a redcap with a cart; in any case they told the family that they could all go out onto the platform. It happened that I walked out just behind them and was headed to the same car. Beside the door to the car, a conductor (or Assistant, I didn't see) told the other family members they couldn't be on the platform, that they had better hurry off the platform because the police had been called and they'd be arrested. They told him the gate agents had said they could help their mother; he didn't care. I told him the gate agents had said they could help their mother; he appeared not to believe me and basically told me to mind my own business. I was too cautious to keep arguing with him -- he has pretty close to shouting, and to be fair the platform was, as it always is there, crowded and confusing -- so I just helped the people with their bags. They were in upper-level seats even though the mother was a bit frail. (2) Once I was seated on the upper level two older people with canes came struggling up the stairs, just barely making it with a rest on the landing. No one had told them they should have lower-level seats. In both cases, if the ticketing website (1) said "people who can't climb stairs easily should reserve lower-level seats and (2) had a place to indicate trouble walking, the gate agents and conductors and redcaps could have been tipped off beforehand to help those passengers to their cars and seats. Instead, we had the spectacle of three pax climbing stairs they should not have climbed, a conductor desperate to clear the platform getting angry at passengers who were not being unreasonable, and the prospect of the police arresting some middle-aged women for trying to help mom and sister get on the train. (White conductor, black passengers; probably not a directly racist incident but it kind of felt that way to me once he mentioned the police.) I can't fault the conductor for trying to get people boarded quickly. I know the CUS platforms are too small even for the pax, let alone visitors; I appreciate that that crew was handing pax seat checks with assigned seats to save time and prevent arguments on board. They were trying. But the system there was against everyone.

Reserved seats, a clear explanation that lower-level seats don't require stairs and upper-level seats do, and a chance to tell Amtrak "I will need some help or extra time to board" would have made the passengers, the gate agents, the conductors, and the attendant a lot less stressed -- and maybe gotten us all out of CUS a few minutes sooner.
 #1531861  by gokeefe
 
Jeff Smith wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:06 am Bet Amtrak Joe always had a seat! Any any other Congress Critters along the NEC....
He chose to ride Acela BusinessClass (as opposed to Acela FirstClass) on his final ride out of Washington as Vice President. The choice of seat wasn't publicized but I found it meaningful nonetheless that he didn't takeup any FirstClass inventory with the Second Lady and the accompanying security detail.
 #1531864  by ryanch
 
gokeefe wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:42 pm
Jeff Smith wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:06 am Bet Amtrak Joe always had a seat! Any any other Congress Critters along the NEC....
He chose to ride Acela BusinessClass (as opposed to Acela FirstClass) on his final ride out of Washington as Vice President. The choice of seat wasn't publicized but I found it meaningful nonetheless that he didn't takeup any FirstClass inventory with the Second Lady and the accompanying security detail.
Thanks for that rejoinder.

I don't appreciate the undertone of basically irrelevant snideness that often crops up here. I appreciate your willingness to engage with it at a more constructive level.

Would it be acceptable if we routinely referred to moderators as "moderator critters". If not, I think the term should generally be banned.
 #1531876  by Tadman
 
They are referred to as congress critters because they have earned it through duplicitous action. Think about it. They work part time, get paid low six figures, are often millionaires, are known for revolving door jobs where they flitter over to work for causes with an agenda. This happens on both sides.

In the mean time, how many of them have been in trouble for campaign finance BS, as if the millionaire status isn't enough, or perhaps sexual assault.

If these people are to be leaders of the free world and members of an august body, they have a standard to uphold. But they don't. Recent ugly politics aside, there is still a distinct record of senators and congresspersons acting in an ugly manner.
 #1531884  by David Benton
 
I would think the rest of the "Free world", are looking elsewhere for standards to aspire too, after the last 3 years.Thanks for the tweets too amuse us though .
Security wise , any kind of leader or dignitary wanting to ride a scheduled train would be planned well in advance, and with a need for security personnel to ride along too. Probably cost more than a private jet or helicopter by the time you factor in those costs .
 #1531995  by Arborwayfan
 
Governor Dukakis rode the trolley to work most days for years. My dad chatted with him on the platform at Longwood station at least once.

A friend of mine was a few rows away from Karl Rove on a place once.

The Prime Minister of Norway buys groceries on the way home from work.

I think you don't have to get too far down the list of famous powerful people before they stop being major targets for assassins and start travelling normally.
 #1532030  by SouthernRailway
 
And I've sat across the aisle on planes from Sens. Lindsey Graham, Chuck Schumer, etc., and next to a rap star who people took pictures of after she left the plane (I have no idea who she was). Most people travel normally. Joe Biden, bless his heart, does not get extra credit for taking Acela in business class.
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