OT: NPPA memo - Your right to photograph in public places

[MEC407]

OK, so apparently there is an invisible line somewhere on the platform that passengers are not allowed to cross... and despite the fact that said line is invisible, passengers are expected to know where that line is, and not cross it unless they want to be arrested and thrown in jail.

[chuchubob]

I was on the platform at Baltimore's Penn Station walking toward the AEM7 to photograph it and the conductor told me not to venture forward of the forward-most open passenger door.

[MEC407]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul S. Highland" <[email protected]>
To: "TrainOrders List" <[email protected]>; "Railspot List" <[email protected]>; "Southeast Rails" <[email protected]>; "Rail South" <[email protected]>; "Amtrak Fans" <[email protected]>; "Amtrak and Transit" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 13:34
Subject: [Amtrak] Fwd: Update on man arrested for trespassing at Amtrak in New Orleans; 19 Aug


> Reposted from the Trains Newswire @ <http://www.trains.com>:
>
> Amtrak arrests Sunset Limited passenger for trespassing
>
> NEW ORLEANS -- Amtrak's no trespassing policy came into sharp focus last month when a passenger on
> the eastbound Sunset Limited got off the train in New Orleans Saturday, August 19 and walked up the
> platform to where a locomotive was idling. He wanted to take a photograph of it. Stopped by an
> Amtrak police officer, he was arrested, booked and spent the night in a city jail. The train
> departed without him.
>
> The passenger, James Bourgeois, a 60-year-old retired pharmaceutical salesman from Houston, Texas,
> en route to Pensacola, Fla., says he didn't do anything to cause his arrest. An Amtrak spokesman
> said the arresting Amtrak police officer said Bourgeois was belligerent and refused to leave.
> Bourgeois denies it.
>
> Bourgeois says that while walking up the platform, two female Amtrak employees drove by and asked
> him what he was doing and admonished him to "watch out for the Amtrak police."
>
> "I did not take that warning seriously because I was not doing anything wrong," Bourgeois later
> recounted. "I joked that maybe 'they would beat me up, so I could file a multi-million dollar
> lawsuit.' "
>
> Bourgeois says he walked a little farther up the platform to take a few photos when he encountered
> another Amtrak employee who asked why he was there. Asking if he could walk farther down the
> platform, he says the employee asked him to wait where he was until someone could accompany him.
>
> While waiting, Bourgeois says the two female Amtrak employees he spoke with previously had returned
> and the three were chatting when an Amtrak police officer drove up and explained that he was
> trespassing.
>
> "I merely inquired if this was not public property, since Amtrak is a publicly supported entity,"
> said Bourgeois. It was then, he says, the Amtrak policeman told him he was under arrest.
>
> Handcuffed and driven to the Amtrak police office, Bourgeois says the officer concocted an almost
> completely false account of what had occurred. Running Bourgeois' identification turned up nothing.
> During the ride to the Orleans Parish Prison, the officer, Bourgeois said, pointed to the "No
> Trespassing" sign on the chainlink fence, which he claims was not visible from the passenger
> platform.
>
> Booked and processed at the city jail for criminal trespass, Bourgeois says the Amtrak officer
> confiscated his wallet, his digital camera and a pocketknife. He also says the officer erased the
> Amtrak photos he had in his camera and was surprised to find a photo of a pair of Air Force A-10s
> that had flown by. Bourgeois explained that he liked airplanes because he was a pilot.
>
> The New Orleans police wanted to see his identification, but Bourgeois said the Amtrak officer, who
> had left the premises, had previously confiscated it. Allowed to make three telephone calls, he
> called his brother and sister-in-law who lives in Lake Charles, La. His sister-in-law made calls to
> the people waiting for Bourgeois in Pensacola. A cousin came to the jail to pay his bond. He finally
> left jail at 12:30 a.m. Sunday and recovered his belongings the next day at the terminal.
>
> "There is no stone I will leave unturned to get justice for this," Bourgeois says. "As I sat in jail
> my most consistent thought, after 'I have to get out of here," was 'I have to make this count for
> something.' This should never happen to anyone, again."
>
> Amtrak stands by its police officer that Bourgeois was belligerent and refused to leave, thereby
> giving him no choice but to arrest Bourgeois, even though he was just taking photos.
>
> "We don't arrest people for taking photos," the spokesman said. "We arrest people for trespassing."
>
> Bourgeois says he does not remember the names of any of the Amtrak personnel he was speaking to at
> the time of his arrest.
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA ... /YSTolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amtrak/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

[JLJ061]

OK, so apparently there is an invisible line somewhere on the platform that passengers are not allowed to cross... and despite the fact that said line is invisible, passengers are expected to know where that line is, and not cross it unless they want to be arrested and thrown in jail.

A similar situation actually happened to me once. Back when Conrail was still in business I was taking pictures near the west end of the yard in Elkhart. There no "No Trespassing" signs posted in the area I was at, so I figured I was in the clear.

After about 15 minutes a railroad cop came along on his rounds and spotted me. After the usual questioning as to who I was and why I was there, he pointed out that technically I was on railroad property, though he did admit there were no signs to point that out. He then pointed me to an area about 100 feet in the other direction that was well off railroad property, and said I could continue to take pictures from there if I wanted to.

So I gave him a polite "Thank you," and with a pat on the back and a "Have fun, be careful," the cop left to continue his rounds.

The biggest problem with railroad police is they come from the human gene pool, just like everyone else!

[Sam Damon]

A similar situation actually happened to me once. Back when Conrail was still in business I was taking pictures near the west end of the yard in Elkhart. There no "No Trespassing" signs posted in the area I was at, so I figured I was in the clear.

After about 15 minutes a railroad cop came along on his rounds and spotted me. After the usual questioning as to who I was and why I was there, he pointed out that technically I was on railroad property, though he did admit there were no signs to point that out. He then pointed me to an area about 100 feet in the other direction that was well off railroad property, and said I could continue to take pictures from there if I wanted to.

So I gave him a polite "Thank you," and with a pat on the back and a "Have fun, be careful," the cop left to continue his rounds.

This is how the cops are supposed to behave. 95% percent of the time, this happens.

You walk onto property. As it turns out, it's private property, and the owner does not want you there. So the police tell you so politely. Just as politely, you do as requested and leave. No big deal.

It's when the cops think the badge entitle them to a power trip that you run into problems. Or Officer "There's-a-terrorist-behind-every-camera" Doughnut just itches to whip the cuffs out. Or the cop who had no action last night, and just needs something, anything, to break the monotony.

In my experience on the streets as a news camera guy, only utter politeness on my part kept me out of trouble. Even so, you still run into goofs. Another story from Ohio while employed by Channel X might prove instructive.

An accident happened at Our Lady of the Divine Civic Center church (it really was that ugly) one fine Sunday afternoon. Little old lady hits gas instead of brake, parishoners fall like tenpins. Some of them die.

One church-goer at the scene has a video camera. They call the Channel X newsroom. Do I want the video? Of course. No blood and gore, but mass confusion. Shows ambulances and stretchers. Mostly harmless, as far as video. It leads the news that night. Monday, Boss-man gets nasty phone call from priest, 'cos we've used the video one of his flock has shot. Boss-man politely blows off priest. Nobody tells me of this conversation.

Funeral for parishioners happens couple days later. Not knowing of conversation priest has had with Boss-man, I drive onto the property and park. Whip out the camera & 3/4-inch deck, white balance. I had rolled maybe 20 seconds of tape when I hear this guy scream --

"YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED HERE! GET OUT!"

I turn around and see Priestguy. His arms are flailing wildly. He continues to yell.

"YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THIS PROPERTY!"

"Sir, I'm just getting some video to tell the story of the funeral --"

"YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE! IF YOU USE ANY OF THAT VIDEO WE WILL SUE YOU!!" Priestguy's voice rises a full octave, and he's getting red in the face. Further discussion is pointless. Even so, Priestguy thinks he's performing a valuable public service. He stretches his arms out, and attempts to put the "hand filter" into use on my camera. Just as quickly, I dodge his hand while continuing to roll tape.

"Excuse me, sir. I'm leaving. I'll get my video over there (pointing across the street to the sidewalk)."

"YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!! If you set up there, I'm calling the police!" Priestguy threatens.

"Good night, sir," I say as turn and walk away. I pack the camera back up in the newsmobile, drive off, and park across the street. I set up my camera and tripod on the sidewalk across the street from Our Lady of the Divine Civic Center.

My competition from Channel Y joins me to tell me the same thing happened to him -- but he went to dinner while waiting for the funeral to start, and is just now returning. The zoom lenses on our cameras have just enough reach to show the funeral service going on through the glass of the church. Sure enough, 15 minutes later, a blue and white rolls up.

Officer Friendly comes up to us with a hangdog look on his face. "You guys know why I'm here, don't you?"

"Uh, yah."

"You know and I know there's nothing I can do to you if you take your video from here. I'm only here to make it look good because they called us, and we have to look like we're doing something. Just don't go on their property, okay?"

We both nod. We both get our video. It appears on our newscasts. All Priestguy has done is become a hemorrhoid.

Moral of story: News Photographers *will* get their pictures. If they don't, they get fired. Sometimes, it's not very pretty.

[mxdata]

The negative attitudes in the industry now are not exclusively directed toward railfans, they extend to industry insiders and suppliers as well. Forty years ago I was doing business with a number of the class one railroads as a supplier, and several of them provided me with annual passes that included photography in the scope of activity. I reciprocated each year by providing their public relations departments with some of my best shots to use as they saw fit. Nowadays that kind of access is virtually impossible to arrange. In recent years, if I pull out a camera for any business purpose, I can sometimes get the same kind of negative reactions that many railfans encounter.

Recently one of my customers asked me if I could provide some photos for their use. They are one of these outfits that wants you to go downtown and wait for the special agent to sign a one day photo pass before you go out and shoot anything. Consequently I never photograph anything on their property, and could not help them. I sometimes think that the most fitting thing that could happen to these folks is that since they are so busy making it difficult for anyone to photograph anything, eventually nothing whatsoever gets published about their era on the railroads, and they just fade away forever into the vast nothing that they have created.