OT: NPPA memo - Your right to photograph in public places

Mr. Moderator, I'm crossposting this here because of the popularity of this forum, and the enthusiasm we hopefully all have when we photograph trains. You may wish to sticky, lock or delete this as the case may be, but I think this information is of interest to all of us in the railroad enthusiast community. Thanks.

The National Press Photographer's Association, or NPPA, commissioned the law firm of Covington & Burling to write a memorandum concerning the First Amendment right to photograph in public places. While this memorandum is targeted at media organizations, it holds valuable information for anyone involved in photographing in public places. Here's an excerpt from the annoucement:

Singled out from their memorandum are these significant points:

* The Constitution protects the media’s right to freely gather news, which includes the right to make photographs in a public forum;

* There is no federal law that would prohibit photography in public places or restrict photography of public places and/or structures;

* Any restrictions that the government does impose would need to have supporting evidence that it was essential for public safety. The burden is on the government;

* Government officials cannot single out news cameras for removal while continuing to allow the general public to remain in a location, particularly if the public is taking pictures;

* When journalists are denied access, they should avoid confrontation and arrest and instead gather as much information as possible so that they can later seek relief through proper channels.

The complete announcement, including a link to a PDF of the NPPA memorandum may be found here.

Do note:

That discusses Governmental restraint of news cameras, and addresses news photography when personal photography is PERMITTED.

The "talking points" do nothing for:

- The private person taking pictures of private property (and having a private police (eg railroad police) say "NO."

- The private landholder restricting photography of his property.

I find the bottom line of the talking points most instructive. IF ASKED, DO WHAT THE MAN TELLS YOU TO DO ... and fight the battle another day in the appropriate forum ... court.

John Perkowski

AMTRAK FORUM MODERATOR'S NOTE

This material was initially posted at the Amtrak forum; however, it has applicability to photography of any railroad activities and is best discussed at this forum.

There is a "moved' link at the Forum so that Amtrak forum participants will be directed to discuss the topic here.

GBN
Moderator, Amtrak forum

If we have one at this forum, I will let an attorney whose specialty is intellectual property answer that question.

John Perkowski

And on a related note, just in case anybody hasn't read this yet, here it is:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Poon" <[email protected]>
To: "All Aboard" <[email protected]>; "Amtrak Fans" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 13:05
Subject: [Amtrak] Alleged Amtrak Police Misconduct


> (Steve Barry is Managing Editor of Railroad and Railfan magazine. The
> story will appear in the next issue of the magazine. If this is all
> true, there could be very serious consequences for Amtrak and the Amtrak
> Police Department. He posted this to another discussion board, and it
> is being reposted here)
> ============================================================
>
>
>
>> August 23, 2005
>
>> My biggest fear, in recounting what happened to me August 19, 2005 in New
>> Orleans, is that people will have a very difficult time believing me. I am
>> sure some folks will be sure I am embellishing the facts, exaggerating, or
>> outright lying. None of this is the case. Everything I state here happened as
>> I say it.
>
>> I am a 60-year-old, recently retired pharmaceutical rep, with three grown sons.
>> I have a particular fondness for trains, and riding on Amtrak. Friday morning,
>> August 19, I departed Houston on the Sunset Limited, bound for Pensacola,
>> Florida for a short vacation. The train had a layover of several hours in New
>> Orleans, so I thought I would kill some time taking photographs of the terminal
>> and Amtrak facilities. I had taken a lot of photographs along the way, and I
>> have started a photographic album intended to document the Sunset Limited all
>> the way across Louisiana. There is no way to know how much longer Amtrak will
>> run this train.
>
>> It is important to know that there are no signs on the platform forbidding
>> passengers from walking down the platform into the area beyond where the lead
>> engine would be, and no signs that prohibit passengers from taking photographs.
>> There are "No Trespassing" signs on the gate to the Amtrak maintenance facility,
>> on Earhart, but they are not visible on the platform. Two female Amtrak
>> employees drove by and asked me what I was doing. I said I was taking
>> photographs, and that rail photography was a hobby of mine. They admonished me
>> to "watch out for the Amtrak police." I did not take that warning seriously,
>> because I was not doing anything wrong. I joked that maybe "they would beat me
>> up, so I could file a multi-million dollar lawsuit." That, being an idea so
>> ridiculous, anyone would know it was meant in a humorous vein. I walked a
>> little further down where I encountered a young guy, who was also an Amtrak
>> employee. He inquired as to why I was photographing the switcher, and I
>> explained to him that I was just a railfan, and I wanted photos of the Amtrak
>> equipment. I asked if I could walk further down the platform to take a couple
>> more photographs. He said he preferred I wait until he could get someone to
>> accompany me down there. I said "fine", and I waited. By then the two female
>> employees had returned and we were all standing around talking and waiting for
>> whoever was supposed to come to see about my request. After a while an Amtrak
>> policeman arrived. I figured he would say I could, or I could not go further
>> down the platform. When he got out of his car, I could see he was already in a
>> highly excited and agitated state. He was not in the mood to dialogue. He
>> explained I was trespassing on private property (remember, no signs), and was
>> not supposed to be taking photos. I was not about to argue with him, or be the
>> least bit confrontational, knowing the reputation of New Orleans police, but
>> this was an AMTRAK policeman, and I was an AMTRAK passenger. I merely inquired
>> if this was not public property, since Amtrak is a publicly supported entity.
>> At that he told me to turn around, and he handcuffed me.
>
>
>> I naturally protested that I had done nothing wrong. But he was determined to
>> handle things the way he had, I believe, decided to handle them before he ever
>> showed up. He took me up to his office, and contacted someone, who I assume was
>> his superior. He gave the person an embellished, and almost completely false
>> account of what happened. For instance, he stated I had said, "This is public
>> property, and I can be here if I want to be." I begged the policeman not to
>> take me off the train, but he continued to repeat that I was "going to jail." I
>> really got upset at this point and insisted he let me talk to someone in the
>> Amtrak office. After asking him over and over to let me speak with someone, he
>> finally put an agent on the phone. I told agent at the terminal I had done
>> nothing wrong, and to please come get me out of this mess. The agent said he
>> could not override the policeman, and generally conveyed the attitude that he
>> did not give a damn what my predicament was. The policeman ran my ID, and, of
>> course, it came back that I had never been arrested, and that I had no criminal
>> record. He was unfazed by that information, and instructed the agent to remove
>> my bag from the sleeper room I had occupied. In the stress of the moment I
>> forgot about my large hanging bag that was in the lower level rack. It made it
>> to Orlando, and I will get it back this week.
>
>
>> As we were driving out of the terminal area, on the way to the Orleans Parish
>> Prison, he pointed out the "No Trespassing" sign on the chain link gate, which
>> is not visible to any passenger on the platform of the terminal. Upon arrival
>> at the jail, I was processed in, and at that point the Amtrak officer committed
>> a gross violation of procedure, by keeping my wallet, camera, and a pocket knife
>> that the jailer had taken out of my pocket. This was to have major
>> ramifications, later, when I finally had the opportunity to bail myself out of
>> the facility. He had also erased certain photographs in my digital camera,
>> while up in his office, a violation of my civil liberties. While waiting for
>> him to show up I had photographed two A-10's that were flying over. He wanted
>> to know why I had photographed the A-10's. I responded, "Because I'm a pilot."
>> I do hold a private pilot's license, but my response seemed to stun him
>> slightly, and he moved on.
>
>
>> The Orleans Parish Prison is one of the worst jails in the country. The jailers
>> there treat all inmates with contempt, disdain, and do everything they can to
>> make you feel there is no light at the end of tunnel. My charge, incidentally,
>> was criminal trespass. You cannot bond out until you are "processed." For
>> hours I watched other inmates come and go, while my name was never called.
>> Earlier, in an odd difference in procedure, the watch captain said, "O.K.
>> Bourgeois, go to that window." I thought I had it made, but when I got there,
>> the first thing they wanted was a photo I.D. Too bad, it was in my bag at the
>> Amtrak police office. So, I had to be put through a nationwide fingerprint
>> search, which added more time to my stay. I went in the jail at 6:30 p.m. on
>> Friday, slept (what little I could) on the concrete jail floor, instead of the
>> viewliner bed I had on the Sunset Limited, and at four o'clock Saturday
>> afternoon I was still in jail. I could have been out at 11 a.m. of the same
>> day, but with no money, or debit card (remember, they were taken from me) I
>> could not bond out. So, along with about 60 other inmates, I was put in the
>> orange suit and moved to the big prison, with the big cell block, just like you
>> see in the movies.
>
>
>> By the grace of God I had done one thing right. I had managed to get a phone
>> book and write down the number of my cousin, who lives in New Orleans. All
>> phone calls out had to be collect, and you had to have the number. I can
>> remember exactly two phone numbers in my head, one being my brother who lives in
>> Lake Charles. I was finally able to get in touch with my sister-in-law, and
>> she made numerous phone calls for me; most importantly to my friends in
>> Pensacola, who by now, were frantic. Not to mention my youngest son, who lives
>> here in Houston, who was sent into a tailspin. My cousin, who had been gone
>> when I first called, was home now, and around 6 p.m., she came down and paid my
>> bond. In the manner of doing things at the Orleans Parish Prison, I walked out
>> of the jail at 12:30 a.m. Sunday morning. I recovered my belongings the next
>> day at the terminal.
>
>
>> My vacation I had looked forward to was destroyed. My friends and family had
>> been traumatized, as only you can be when you cannot account for the whereabouts
>> of someone. The lasting psychological effect of this is hard to predict. I
>> have been quite depressed since I came home. The over whelming fact is, I
>> COMITTED NO CRIME. You cannot arrest someone for trespassing, when there is not
>> even a sign saying "no trespassing," and you cannot arrest someone for taking
>> photographs. The entire amount of time that the officer spent with me on the
>> platform could not have been over one minute. What motivated him to arrest me,
>> when he could have easily said, "You cannot be here-go back to the train," I
>> cannot say. What really bothers me is he obviously felt he could get away with
>> this gross example of false arrest, and deprivation of civil liberties. That
>> points to something rotten in the system, itself. Combine that with the total
>> disregard of my welfare by the Amtrak agent, and there is ample room for an
>> investigation, and action to be taken. The officer should be terminated, for
>> sure, and following him out the door should be the agent. The officer's
>> superior who allowed him to perpetrate this outrage, should also have to answer.
>
>
>> There is no stone I will leave unturned to get justice for this. As I sat in
>> jail my most consistent thought, after "I have to get out of here," was "I have
>> to make this count for something." This should never happen to anyone, again.
>
>> James Craig Bourgeois

Uh wow, what a strong letter. They really were left inconvenienced by that. But I', always careful and I always use good judgement when photographing and videoing.

John_Perkowski wrote:Do note:

That discusses Governmental restraint of news cameras, and addresses news photography when personal photography is PERMITTED.

The "talking points" do nothing for:

- The private person taking pictures of private property (and having a private police (eg railroad police) say "NO."

- The private landholder restricting photography of his property.

I find the bottom line of the talking points most instructive. IF ASKED, DO WHAT THE MAN TELLS YOU TO DO ... and fight the battle another day in the appropriate forum ... court.

John Perkowski

COL, in some ways I must respectfully disagree with you. In fact, in some ways I differ with NPPA's take; let's discuss this.

The railroad enthusiast's desire to take pictures of trains while in a station is as much the press's fight as it is the railroad enthusiast community's. What it boils down to as I understand it (and IANAL), is our right to gather information in a "public forum." I certainly would consider a train station a "public forum", but a railroad might disagree, and a court just might agree with them.

If you ban still and video cameras, at a train station, then you logically have to ban laptop computers, camera phones, tape recorders, iPods, and of course notebooks and pencils, all of which can be used legally in pursuit of rights granted to me by the First Amendment. Do you seriously think that if it is put that way to NJT they will go along -- and try to ban all that stuff?

As for the NPPA take, I disagree with them as far as their effort to create rights for news organizations when none exist right now. The whole mess over policies like NJT's is caused because it is comparatively difficult to define exactly who's a journalist. Should I, Sam Damon, working and wearing regalia from Channel X, have more of a right to make train videos than COL John, just because I work for Channel X, and COL John just wants a nifty reminder of his trip? The US constitution makes no difference between us. Both of us have the right to make train videos.

What queers everything is when we get into commercial rights. It is quite one thing to take pictures for the scrapbook. It is quite another to take pictures and sell them for publication. Commercial law gets involved to complicate the First Amendment.

Enough for now.

In the described incident, the Amtrak police apparantly consider the public area that area of the platform needed to board or exit the train, a logical conclusion since Amtrak is in the passenger transportation business and not in the business of being a model to photograph. The photographer went much further out on the platform to photograph the front of the train, and thus exceeded the implied conditions for entering onto the platform.

Amtrak's System Timetable, under "Tips for Traveling Amtrak," Page 132, item 9: Look for scenic photo opportunities. Our trains pass many beautiful and interesting sights, so bring your camera and plenty of medium speed film (ISO 200 or higher).

Amtrak is referring to taking photos of the 'passing' scenery from inside the train, not of the trains from a location not permitted to passengers.

Nowhere in the System Timetable does it say that photography of Amtrak equipment or facilities is forbidden.

>> It is important to know that there are no signs on the platform forbidding
>> passengers from walking down the platform into the area beyond where the lead
>> engine would be, and no signs that prohibit passengers from taking photographs.

Robert Paniagua wrote:But I', always careful and I always use good judgement when photographing and videoing.

Unfortunately, good judgement won't make any difference if you're at the mercy of a person who has decided to violate your legal and civil rights in the name of "security" -- most likely because he simply dislikes railfans.

MEC407 wrote: Unfortunately, good judgement won't make any difference if you're at the mercy of a person who has decided to violate your legal and civil rights in the name of "security" -- most likely because he simply dislikes railfans.

Exactly. An incident from my newsgathering experience on the streets might prove instructive.

I was working for Channel X some years ago, on a street in an Ohio town, shooting with a good ol' 3/4-inch U-matic deck connected by cable to a camera. My subject was a nondescript house. I was on a public sidewalk. The house in question was where a teenage boy had accidently plugged his teenage friend while "cleaning" a gun. My job was strictly to get the location video; I did not have to interview anyone, for which I was thankful. In less than five minutes I would be packed up and headed back to the Channel X newsroom.

Brawnyman rolls up in a late-model SUV near where my tripod is setup, and I'm taping. He opens the door, and without any pleasantries, says to me, "You keep filming and you're going to lose that camera."

I politely say to him in a level voice, "Sir, this is a public sidewalk, and I have the right to film." Brawnyman then gets back into his SUV, and attempts to pull onto the curb from the street. I pick the camera and tripod up, and move down the street a couple yards or so for my last set-up as he drives off. All I need is one this one more set-up, and I'm done -- or so I think.

I glance over at my newsmobile in the alley after I push the button to roll tape on my set-up. Brawnyman has parked his SUV directly behind my newsmobile. "I said you're going to lose that camera if you keep filming!" Brawnyman yells. His girlpal is at his side, yelling "Go ahead! Break his camera!" I rip the camera off the tripod and swing the camera around. Brawnyman grabs my tripod, and smashes it into the rear window of my newsmobile. All the time, I'm rolling tape. My camera captures Brawnyman as he smashes the tripod into the ground, breaking the tripod plate, and then as he comes after me, attempting to use "the hand filter" as I continue to roll tape. Brawnyman grabs my camera and pushes it back into my face as his girlpal continues to yell obscenities at me and encourages him. The VTR stops as Brawnyman knocks me to the ground, and I trip over the cable connecting the camera to the deck.

In a few moments, it's over. Brawnyman and his girl stalk back to his SUV. I'm on the ground, dazed, a little bruised, but otherwise okay. A couple bystanders who've seen the whole thing walk up to me, and ask me if I'm okay.

"He was out of control," one says. Another says, "He had no right to do that."

I call the newsroom, and tell them what happened. My boss comes in, looks at the tape, and calls the station lawyer. The video tops the news, and is sent out over the network affiliate news services.

And Brawnyman? He is charged with assualt, and ends up the subject of a civil suit brought by Channel X. Channel X pays me to be in court so I can testify if needed. Brawnyman pleads nolo contendere to the assault charge, and ends up paying restitution to Channel X. The station lawyer told me Brawnyman's lack of anger management skills probably cost him around $10K or so by the time it was all over.

Moral of story: even if you are careful, jerks abound.

I thought Amtrak recommended taking pictures at their stations from the calendar photo contest regulations. If so where was the tresspassing coming from ?

MEC407 wrote:Nowhere in the System Timetable does it say that photography of Amtrak equipment or facilities is forbidden.

>> It is important to know that there are no signs on the platform forbidding
>> passengers from walking down the platform into the area beyond where the lead
>> engine would be, and no signs that prohibit passengers from taking photographs.

That's because it is not forbidden to photograh the trains. It appears to me from reading the letter that the gentlemen in question ventured to go down the platform a substantial distance beyond the point necessary to enter or exit the train, thereby exceeding the license granted by Amtrak to be on its property. It was compounded by the statement made to the officer. In general, the lack of a sign does not necessarily excuse someone depending on the specific facts and circumstances.