• Moynihan Station Plans (New York Pennsylvania Station) NYP

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

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  by IRFCA_RRfan
 
3 Designs Submitted for Midtown Train Station

New York State officials announced yesterday that they would choose from among three developers to transform the city's central post office into a new Midtown train station serving commuters on New Jersey Transit and possibly the Long Island Rail Road.

The selection of one of the three design proposals submitted Friday is expected to take place by June and would mark an important step forward for the plans to create a new train station in memory of Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who championed the effort before his death in 2003.

The project, across Eighth Avenue from Pennsylvania Station, has proceeded in fits and starts for the last decade, but officials now hope to begin construction by the end of this year and complete the station by 2010.

"The quality and scope of the various proposals put forth for Moynihan Station show the importance of this project as a gateway to New York City," said Charles A. Gargano, the chairman of the Empire State Development Corporation.

The design proposals all incorporate what has playfully become known as the potato chip - a shapely glass and steel canopy that will encompass the new station's entry lobby. That canopy, designed by David M. Childs of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, would envelop a series of concourses that slip under the post office building, letting light flow onto the train platforms below ground.

The three proposals also include a well-lit atrium and a passageway along 32nd Street linking Eighth and Ninth Avenues.

The agency has secured $600 million in public funds to build the 400,000-square-foot train station. In addition, the site will include 250,000 square feet for the Postal Service and 750,000 square feet for retail, office or residential use.

The developers are Boston Properties, Tishman Speyer and a partnership of the Related Companies and Vornado Realty Trust.

Whoever who wins the competition will also acquire the rights to privately develop and control the 750,000 square feet under a long-term lease. Mr. Gargano would not specify the features of each proposal, but he said they included a warehouse-type store, a boutique or business hotel, a museum, public space for exhibits and live performances, a rooftop banquet hall and space for retail stores.

The project effectively dates to 1963, when the former Pennsylvania Station, a Beaux-Arts masterpiece designed by McKim, Mead & White, was demolished over protests by preservationists and architects. The current Madison Square Garden was built on the site over a labyrinthine terminal for Amtrak, the two commuter railroads and two sets of subway lines.

In 1998, officials announced they would lease 400,000 square feet of space in the James A. Farley Post Office Building, built in 1914, for a new station. But in 2002, the agency agreed to buy the entire site, on Eighth Avenue between 31st and 33rd Streets, for $230 million.

The current Penn Station serves 550,000 passengers a day. "It is horrible right now," Mr. Gargano said. "It is congested, not roomy, not pleasant to look at. It's like walking through a cave."
www.nytimes.com/2005/02/25/nyregion/25station.html

So this is definitely a go irrespective of the new the ARC/THE developments... I wonder how would the 2 (stations) tie in together - arrive in one and leave from the other?

Design pics can be seen at www.som.com - Projects - transportation - Penn Station redevelopment. (The whole thing is in a Flash Pop-up)

www.som.com//resources/projects/3/7/7/printPreview.html

  by F23A4
 
I'm not certain if it'll ever happen but, very nice!! :-D

  by mersk862
 
Looks really impressive. I've seen the work that these guys have done with Terminal E at Logan Airport in Boston and T4 at JFK, and those are two of the nicest, if not the nicest, terminals I've ever been in. I'd love to see Penn Station come out like these two terminals...very open and airy, very aestetically appealling...

Jeff

  by dinky
 
Figures.....even in the pictures before building the escelators aren't moving :-D

  by JLo
 
Talk about boondoggles. In this day and age of Amtrak being on the verge of bankruptcy, hundreds of millions will be spent on something that is not critical to rail transit's future.

  by Lackawanna484
 
I'm waiting to see a project plan for reworking the track layouts to accomodate the new station. In many cases, the west ends of these platforms (under the GPO) are much narrower than the parts of the platform under NYP. With new escelators installed on the narrower ends, there will be even less space than currently exists. I hope they'll widen the west ends of the platforms, but that will take a lot of track reorganization.

There's also the matter of having Charlie Gargano in charge of the project. As head of the Empire Development Commission, he's a close ally of George Pataki. I wonder how much influence NJT will have as the project continues?

  by Jtgshu
 
Look, there are no catenary wires - i guess the trains will run through battery power though the nice part of the station!!!!

And NJT wants to build the stupid 34th street station too.....combine this project and reconfigure and expand the station to allow for all trains to use the current and new Post Office station, adn not waste the money on building an entirely new underground station at 34th street.....

  by IRFCA_RRfan
 
Jtgshu wrote:...And NJT wants to build the stupid 34th street station too.....combine this project and reconfigure and expand the station to allow for all trains to use the current and new Post Office station, adn not waste the money on building an entirely new underground station at 34th street.....
The ARC/THE Alternative P is all about creating that 34th st Station with the new tunnel running (under) diagonally northeast across current and coming out at 34th, while another spur going into the new concourse in the Farley Bldg.

I don't get it - the Moynihan station has funding, is being designed and will definitely happen (the som.com site even claims it is "finished" in "2003"!) while the ARC keeps pushing for the 34th st alternative. If BOTH are ultimately built, you have numerous platforms for NJT, separated 3 to 4 blocks from each other!

  by IRFCA_RRfan
 
Jtgshu - remember your tag about Platform 1 and 2 vs Platform 12? - consider the fun when you have to tell the dumb wanderers...
"No its not THIS station/platform for the Midtown Direct - go up the flight and ask the attendant directions for getting to the OTHER NJTransit station 3 blocks down"! :-D

  by Jishnu
 
Apparently the plan is to assign trains from specific routes to specific station. For example, all NEC and Midtown Directs go to PSNY and all NJCL, RV, Main, Bergen and Pascack Valley line trains go to 34th St. That is what they presented at the recent "Regional Citizens Liaison Committee" meeting.

/J
  by Head-end View
 
Okay now; I must be missing the point here. Didn't we just spend a huge amount of money and effort to build the new NJT concourse, and a few years back wasn't the Amtrak part of Penn Sta. renovated extensively? And ditto for the LIRR side too. I think the whole place looks fine and does the job. SO, why do we suddenly need a whole new Penn Station in the old Post Office? What is the rationale for this? And why spend millions on a RR station that we don't need? Am I missing something here? :(

  by Bobby S
 
"You just can't make this stuff up" LOL

  by Bensalem SEPTA rider
 
It sounds nice, but they should build new platforms as part of the package. Then, when the new rail tunnels are built, the capacity at NYP will be there waiting for it. And, this opens up room someday for the MNRR.

  by acs85
 
Head-end View wrote:Okay now; I must be missing the point here. Didn't we just spend a huge amount of money and effort to build the new NJT concourse, and a few years back wasn't the Amtrak part of Penn Sta. renovated extensively? And ditto for the LIRR side too. I think the whole place looks fine and does the job. SO, why do we suddenly need a whole new Penn Station in the old Post Office? What is the rationale for this? And why spend millions on a RR station that we don't need? Am I missing something here?
There is honestly a need for more space in Penn Station. With over half a million people going through there every day, it's packed, and is only going to get worse, with subway ridership increasing and NJ Transit expanding service. But Head-end View was right when that they just spent hundreds of millions on updating PS. So the solution seems obvious: just go w/ option "P1" and build right under the existing station.

The NEC, NJCL & MidTown Direct - the lines that ppl use most - can go to can go to Moynihan, the nicer station; the others can go under PS.

And as far as I wonder if anyone over @ NJ Transit thought about how annoying it would be to have some trains in Moynihan & others @ 34th street? It would be a mess.

  by ryanov
 
acs85 wrote:The NEC, NJCL & MidTown Direct - the lines that ppl use most - can go to can go to Moynihan, the nicer station; the others can go under PS.
How about the other trains go to HOBOKEN, like they do now, instead of trying to waste more money routing trains into NYC after SEC was built to solve that and other problems.
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