Amtrak/LIRR Moynihan Train Hall

Jishnu wrote:

Jtgshu wrote:So they will "hold" trainsets at that new yard in SEC, requiring 2 extra, non revenue moves though the tunnels (first one in, drop off passengers, second one out, no pass, third one back in, fourth one out, with passengers)

Boy that just eats up all that brand new capacity doesn't it?

That is indeed the greatest weakness of the stub end 34th St proposal. However, if you ask the champions of the proposal they will tell you that the empty moves are always in the less heavy direction through the new tunnel. Ideally, if one could find the funding the new station should be run through connecting through the East River tunnels (new ones or existing ones) to the Sunnysude yard, or even to GCT as was in a proposal that was rejected because MTA did not want to have anything to do with it (Kinda hard to connect to GCT without MTA's cooperation). But the politico-financial alignments of the stars seem to be absent for that one, since NY State or the City does not want to fund that sort of a thing - at least that is what I was told when I raised this exact point.

As for extension South of Penn Station, I will remember to ask that question when I get a chance. But I can sort of suspect that the answer will be that real estate acquisition cost in that area will be prohibitive, since 31 St is not wide enough to pu a substantial station underneath it. Just my suspcion at this point I must emphasize.

One of the largest contributors to delays now in NYP during the evening rush hour (i don't work mornings, i dno't know about morning rush) is a lack of equipment in the station. There are many non revenue moves that bring X trains into NYP, which turn for revenue trains, and they are moving in the direction opposite travel too, but they get held so revenue westbounds can get out on time. Some times they get held for so long that the train they turn for departs late becuase of the "late arrival of equipment" Trust me, I know, my train 2 days a week 3271, turns off an X train, which often sits in the tunnel or on the X tracks for at least 10 mintues, often longer. The other day, we had a 3 minute turn, meaning the train came in at 551, and we are out at 554. Becuase of my great crew, we actually left on time!!! And bringing in trains, revenue or non revenue ties up other tracks, wiht revenue trains being blocked as the nonrevenue train crosses over in front, and they want these trains to do it TWICE??? That is VERY stupid and wasteful.

No offense to anyone here who may be involved with the THE tunnel project, adn the designing and planning of it, but something like this, REALLY needs to have a few actual railroaders, trainmen, engineers, and dispatchers involved, who KNOW better than ANYONE how the railroad actaully operates now, and how proposed changes could affect it. How things SHOULD work is often times much different than how things DO work.

IF NJT wants to have a yard in Jersey to store trainsets in off peak periods, rebuild McGraw yard in Rahway, and re-instate the "Rahway Rockets" (locals from Rahway to NYP) This would help tremendously with overcrowding on NEC and NJCL trains, and those two non-revenue moves they would have to go the new yard on teh Boonton line would now become revenue moves.

Jtgshu wrote:No offense to anyone here who may be involved with the THE tunnel project, adn the designing and planning of it, but something like this, REALLY needs to have a few actual railroaders, trainmen, engineers, and dispatchers involved, who KNOW better than ANYONE how the railroad actaully operates now, and how proposed changes could affect it. How things SHOULD work is often times much different than how things DO work.

Jtgshu, you make very good points. It would help a lot if knowledgeable people like you take the time to go to the Regional Citizens Liaison Committee meetings and ask questions and raise issues. These are open meetings afterall. Direct participation would be much better than second hand participation through people like me raising these issues at these meetings.

/J

rvrrhs wrote:

Jishnu wrote:Which "loop tracks" are you referring to here?

I'm referring to the "Midtown Loop P-2" illustrated here, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

AFAICT nobody is taking a serious look at that P-2 midtown loop in the DEIS. As a matter of fact it is completely absent from any track diagrams that they are showing in connection with the DEIS work. So it is safe to assume that it is not going to happen, unless someone manages to put it back on the front burner in the DEIS.

/J

The problem with the loop is obvious--it seriously increases acquisition costs. I doubt there are existing easements for it, and you can't build a new tunnel underneath private property without paying for it. All that said, an alignment to a new station underneath the existing station that has some sort of loop involved would be the best approach other than through-running to GCT and beyond.

Jtgshu wrote:Trust me, I know, my train 2 days a week 3271, turns off an X train, which often sits in the tunnel or on the X tracks for at least 10 mintues, often longer.

Hey! I know 3271 Jtgshu. I take it home every day!

Then you can vouch for how quite often, that train called late, or "preloaded" without a train in the station, and quick turns required to get the equipment ready for the westbound trip!!!!! Although it has been better this year than in the past, but it has gotten progressively worse over teh past few months. And you can see how making non-revenue moves, even in teh "opposite" direction, affect revenue trains in the "heavy" direction.

As a side note, is not the ridership to SEC rediculous heavy on board that train, Don??? I challenge ANYONE who says NO ONE uses SEC to stand on teh platform between 6pm and 630 or so, adn see the number of people who get off at SEC.

Jishnu, thank you for the kind words, I appreciate it! Where are the public forums held at and is there a site which states the listings and locations of them?

I dunno Jtgshu, I board at Newark at 6:15, at least thats the advertised...... Come up to the first car somtime and say hello!

ah, you board at Newark at teh "advertised" time of 615 - i think we made it there on time once in teh past month..........at LEAST 21 minutes from NYP to NWK - pathetic..........

BTW, I am in the first car, im the Conductor!!! hahahah

Ill be there tomorrow.............i can't wait - I HATE that train - arrrrgh

Hey, you're not my "linden buddy" are you?????

Jtgshu wrote:ah, you board at Newark at teh "advertised" time of 615 - i think we made it there on time once in teh past month..........at LEAST 21 minutes from NYP to NWK - pathetic..........

BTW, I am in the first car, im the Conductor!!! hahahah

Ill be there tomorrow.............i can't wait - I HATE that train - arrrrgh

Hey, you're not my "linden buddy" are you?????

And Don, when you meet him tomorrow, if you want to get on his good side, don't forget to say "Rutgers Scarlett Knights Rock!" and you'll get special treatment.

I remember Jt back in the good old days when he was the rearbrake on that train. I guess he's a movin' on up. That was back when it was 8-cars. I guess it must be up to nine now and still rising. The most popular local train on the NJCL.

And I thought you liked that train Jt.

Jt, yep, I'm Linden!

And Nick, I went to grad school at Rutgers!

3271, eh? I'm on that train most days, often in the first car.

So, jt, was that you who gave the virtuoso performance a few weeks ago, telling that cursing older lady that if she had to ride your train again, to ride in a different car?

BTW--Rutgers Scarlet Raiders!!!! Rutgers-Newark roolz!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yea, that was me...........I wasn't about to let the comment of "you're only bothering me because im black" go without a fight..........that REALLY @#$%^& me off.....

Although she hasn't bothered me since, and quietly shows her monthly - although I should ask her to pull this months out of her holder as well, because she did make a comment about making monthlies - ill see how she behaves for the rest of the month As a side note, I filled a complaint and report about that incident, because I needed to cover my @$$ in case she decided to write a letter and accuse me of harassment or something like that....luckily, I haven't heard a thing about it.

RVRR, do you get on in NY and see hte mess that 71 can be, and the amount of people who get off in SEC? That train really does need another car - all because of SEC.

Back on topic sort of, how are they proposing to connect all teh statoins in NY? Between the Moynahan station, the current 8th Ave concourse, NJT's 7th ave concourse, and the new 34th St. station. In reality, each of these is like a seperate station, and there is enough confusion between the 8th adn 7th ave concourses. Instead of making anohter entirely seperate station on 34th street, why not expand and connect the current stations and expand south under 31st street and southward. Also, at what depth would the station on 34th street be? How are they going to get teh trains from 30th street or whereever the eastern portal of the tunnel will be north to 34th street - are they going to go under or over teh existing tracks adn tunnels in NYP?

It seems like a colassal waste of money and time and energy to me (this 34th st station)

Nah Nick, its still 8 cars, and some days less.............

I HATE that train, always have, always will. Too quick a turn, too many people............ugh

I guess I am moving on up, I went from working it three days a week down to two - that is progress!!!

Go Pirates

Jtgshu wrote:Yea, that was me...........

Kudos.

Jtgshu wrote:RVRR, do you get on in NY and see hte mess that 71 can be, and the amount of people who get off in SEC? That train really does need another car - all because of SEC.

When I sit in the first car (yours), it seems more like the excess passengers are Elizabeth-bound, not SEC. When I sit toward the middle of the train, there are definitely a lot more SEC folks, especially standees.

Jtgshu wrote:Back on topic sort of, how are they proposing to connect all teh statoins in NY? ... It seems like a colassal waste of money and time and energy to me (this 34th st station)

Of all the options available, the best one for the passengers (and crew?) would be to keep everything together at NYP with a lower level like at Grand Central. I don't know what things are like below the current track level (sub-basements? soil? rock?), but if they could put a new lower concourse down below the current tracks but above new tracks, and connect that concourse to some dedicated escalators/elevators that can bypass the current lowest concourse level, that would make for decent speed getting to/from trains. Connections to/from NJT/LIRR/Amtrak would be smoother than with a "remote" station, whether at 34th St. or 31st or wherever else.

Jtgshu wrote:Jishnu, thank you for the kind words, I appreciate it! Where are the public forums held at and is there a site which states the listings and locations of them?

You're welcome JT.
Take a look at http://www.accesstotheregionscore.com/haveYourSay.html. The information on future RCLC meetings (When they are announced) and how to join the RCLC is under "Click here to Join the RCLC" on that page.

/J