djlong wrote:Like that's any different from a truck crossing the median and striking oncoming *road* traffic?Much worse if your train is a 14 carriage TGV carrying 600 passengers at 220mph!
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djlong wrote:Like that's any different from a truck crossing the median and striking oncoming *road* traffic?Trains can't detour around accidents, and one such accident would put the line out of service for at least a few hours. As Chafford1 noted, there's also the great speed of the trains, which would make the accident even worse than a typical flat-road accident.
But I think that solid crash barriers could do the job, even if guard rails couldn't. There are several designs of them, like the Jersey Barrier, though most of them look a bit too low.
There's been a lot of research into creating barriers that will catch vehicles and prevent them from bouncing back into their roadway. This (I believe) explains the Jersey barrier's curve and the use of more effective but higher-maintenance cable barriers.
Jersey Barrier
Cable Barrier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_barrier
The system is more forgiving than traditional concrete (Jersey) barriers or steel barriers used today and remains effective when installed on sloping terrain. The flexibility of the system absorbs impact energy and dissipates it laterally, which reduces the forces transmitted to the vehicle occupants.
Although cable barriers have been used since the 1960s it wasn’t until the mid 1990s that many departments of transportation began to deploy them with any regularity.
Rigid barriers such as concrete and semi-rigid barriers such as steel guardrail, exhibit impact deflections of 0 to 4 ft, respectively. Flexible systems such as cable barriers deflect between 8 and 12 ft upon impact. Given these relatively large deflections, cable barrier systems are not usually considered appropriate to shield fixed objects closer than 8 ft offset of the traveled way.
Cable Barrier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_barrier
The system is more forgiving than traditional concrete (Jersey) barriers or steel barriers used today and remains effective when installed on sloping terrain. The flexibility of the system absorbs impact energy and dissipates it laterally, which reduces the forces transmitted to the vehicle occupants.
Although cable barriers have been used since the 1960s it wasn’t until the mid 1990s that many departments of transportation began to deploy them with any regularity.
Rigid barriers such as concrete and semi-rigid barriers such as steel guardrail, exhibit impact deflections of 0 to 4 ft, respectively. Flexible systems such as cable barriers deflect between 8 and 12 ft upon impact. Given these relatively large deflections, cable barrier systems are not usually considered appropriate to shield fixed objects closer than 8 ft offset of the traveled way.
known by motorcyclists here as cheese graters . lets just say you dont want to hit one on a motorbike .
on topic , i doubt many would consider them adegaute to stop a heavy vechicle straying onto a hsr row .
on topic , i doubt many would consider them adegaute to stop a heavy vechicle straying onto a hsr row .
Moderator worldwide railfan , Rail travel & trip reports
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
The only train trips I regret are the ones I didn't take.
NE2 wrote:This (I believe) explains the Jersey barrier's curve and the use of more effective but higher-maintenance cable barriers.Supposedly the Jersey Barrier's design was based almost entirely on observation and guesswork, though when tested, it turned out to be surprisingly effective. Even the revised versions aren't much different.
Another trick is to raise the rail line a few feet above the highway, so the cars find it harder to end up there in the first place.
As for TGVs hitting trucks? They've done it, albeit at speeds on the order of 70 - 80 mph, and they actually do pretty well. Anyone who thinks a train can survive a triple digit collision with anything larger than a tiny car is either ignorant of physics, or works for the FRA. The energy involved goes up awfully fast with speed...
While not in the median, theres nothing stopping vehicles from finding their way onto the tracks next to california highway 99
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 56.38,,0,4
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 56.38,,0,4
It appears that others are climbing onto the Las Vegas rail bandwagon
http://www.xtrainvegas.com/
Nostalgic snailrail taking 5.5 hours from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. However it looks very appealing!
Pictures from Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Las-Vegas ... 2265934892
http://www.xtrainvegas.com/
Nostalgic snailrail taking 5.5 hours from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. However it looks very appealing!
Pictures from Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Las-Vegas ... 2265934892
Chafford1 wrote:It appears that others are climbing onto the Las Vegas rail bandwagonTheir business model reminds me of what I've read about the "Florida Fun Train". That was a huge failure, I don't even think it lasted a year. I think this won't attract any serious investors, especially if DesertXpress actually begins construction. I didn't see any route information, do they plan to use Cajon Pass? If UP didn't want another Amtrak train on this route, then I doubt they would agree to this.
http://www.xtrainvegas.com/
Nostalgic snailrail taking 5.5 hours from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
The 'X' Train will use re-engineered E8s with 100mph capability - apparently!
Mr.T wrote:Well, if there had been gambling on the "Florida Fun Train," it might have been a great deal more successful - there's something to be said for any train passing through Nevada, assuming the gaming regulations allow this extra revenue stream. If NJ allowed gambling aboard the ACES train, the future of that service would be far more secure.Chafford1 wrote:It appears that others are climbing onto the Las Vegas rail bandwagonTheir business model reminds me of what I've read about the "Florida Fun Train". That was a huge failure, I don't even think it lasted a year. I think this won't attract any serious investors, especially if DesertXpress actually begins construction. I didn't see any route information, do they plan to use Cajon Pass? If UP didn't want another Amtrak train on this route, then I doubt they would agree to this.
http://www.xtrainvegas.com/
Nostalgic snailrail taking 5.5 hours from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
I also wouldn't worry about the DesertXpress, as there are many doubts surrounding the business model. Will consumers drive all the way to Victorville just to pay $200-300 per head to ride to Vegas?
Has anyone looked at how many get to Branson, Mo? Most come by tourist bus.
Can you imagine how many will be willing to take a tourist bus to Victorville from
Santa Monica, Los Angeles, Burbank, Pasadena, Arcadia, Azusa, Glendora, Pamona, Ontario, Fontana, and San Bernardino to Victorville and that's just a list of cities along I-10?
Look at all the cities in southern California that I left off my list. They could run a tourist bus from each city to Victorville that could fill several trains a day, saving the bus line the expense of going all the way to Las Vegas. It also makes it easier to get passengers from every city too. A similar bus strategy would be needed later to feed passengers with the DesertXpress terminating at Union Station in downtown Los Angeles.
Can you imagine how many will be willing to take a tourist bus to Victorville from
Santa Monica, Los Angeles, Burbank, Pasadena, Arcadia, Azusa, Glendora, Pamona, Ontario, Fontana, and San Bernardino to Victorville and that's just a list of cities along I-10?
Look at all the cities in southern California that I left off my list. They could run a tourist bus from each city to Victorville that could fill several trains a day, saving the bus line the expense of going all the way to Las Vegas. It also makes it easier to get passengers from every city too. A similar bus strategy would be needed later to feed passengers with the DesertXpress terminating at Union Station in downtown Los Angeles.
Chafford1 wrote:It appears that others are climbing onto the Las Vegas rail bandwagonThe picture seems to be by an artist who has never seen an actual train.
http://www.xtrainvegas.com/
Nostalgic snailrail taking 5.5 hours from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. However it looks very appealing!
Pictures from Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Las-Vegas ... 2265934892
Chafford1 wrote:The 'X' Train will use re-engineered E8s with 100mph capability - apparently!100 mph E8's OK, but will those tired old ex-metra bilevels be capable of running above 80mph without encountering stability/ride issues? After all, they were built as commuter stock.
george matthews wrote:Haha, yeah those bilevels must be made for midgets, hunkering behind that F7, which is obviously considerably upgraded in the HP department, maybe with a nuclear reactor, or a jet turbine like some here would like;)Chafford1 wrote:It appears that others are climbing onto the Las Vegas rail bandwagonThe picture seems to be by an artist who has never seen an actual train.
http://www.xtrainvegas.com/
Nostalgic snailrail taking 5.5 hours from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. However it looks very appealing!
Pictures from Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Las-Vegas ... 2265934892